Merkel: Germany hit by full force of Covid

If you can't answer that question for yourself then you have no business in this thread.

 

More blatant and pathetic misinformation. Germany has an estimated 63% rate and many way beyond the point where new research has determined a need for booster.

People like you behave like small lapdogs barking at the ball. Not a clue what you are talking about and ignorant of any relevant subject matter.

Germany’s Fourth Covid Wave: ‘A Pandemic of the Unvaccinated’ - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

You wouldn't know the truth if it hit you square in the face. Your version of "truth" is anything that makes you feel special and in with the alternate society.

 

lol. I was asking you to clarify because, as it stands, your statement suggests that you believe that a sufficient rise in infections causes death rates to stabilize. Giving you the benefit of the doubt - as that would be an odd thing to suggest - I presumed that this is not what you meant.

 

Covid is not smallpox. You may want to educate yourself on that

 

Quick! Somebody please give up more freedoms! We have to do something fast!

 

The context of that conversation had more to do with vaccines than the virus's. You may want to go back and review the entire discussion.

 

Yes and a vaccine can work against something like smallpox. But it will not eradicate covid.

That ks for playing.

 

If vaccines are improving morbidity then you must increase infections at a sufficient rate to keep the death rate stable.

 

This still makes no sense. Why on earth would anyone want to increase infections because the mortality rate is improving? And why would they want that rate to stay stable, rather than continue to improve?

Again, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that the thought in your head makes more sense than your words.

The bottom line is, if the mortality rate is improving this means that the percentage of people who die from Covid-19 is falling. This percentage can fall regardless of the number of cases. It can fall when cases are rising, it can fall when cases decline, and it can fall when cases stay the same.

The same principle would apply if the vaccine made no difference. The percentage of cases that die would stay the same, regardless of the number of cases.

In short, an improvement (or otherwise) in mortality is defined not by the number of cases, but by the percentage of cases who die.

 

I'm not saying anyone wants anything! I'm simply pointing out what must be true in order for the claim that vaccines are effective to be true. TBH, I've forgotten why I was even making that point and I don't have the motivation to re-read the thread.

 

Yes, and I'm pointing out that what you think "must be true" in order to claim that vaccines improve mortality is not correct.

What makes it true is very simple - that the percentage of people that die in vaccinated cases is lower than the percentage in unvaccinated cases.

For example (using imaginary figures):

Cases in vaccinated people resulting in death: 2%

Cases in unvaccinated people resulting in death: 15%

As you can see, there's no need to have a particular number or level of cases in order to "make it true" that the vaccine works. The number of cases can be whatever you like.

It is the percentage of cases - however many there may be - that die that tells us if it's working or not.

 

In that case cumulative deaths increase rate slope should go down,
so far it is not happening.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/#graph-cases-daily

 

Cumulative deaths is simply daily deaths added together.

As you can see from the daily deaths chart, just below the cumulative deaths chart, daily deaths have fallen for all but two months since January. Now, this may not translate into the kind of slope you expect in the cumulative chart, but that's because you're looking at the linear view. Try the logarithmic view, using the tab at the top left of the chart. Is the line now flat enough for you?

Well, it doesn't matter whether it is or it isn't, because you are focused on the wrong metric.

Additionally (and again), the number of deaths - cumulative or otherwise - is not a measure of efficacy.

Vaccine efficacy is determined by the percentage of cases that result in death. If the percentage of deaths is lower in people who are vaccinated, it is working. And, as a result, the number of deaths - whatever it might be for any given day - is lower than it would have been without the vaccine.

 

Yes
E.g. without vaccine the cumulative increase was about 1000 per day on average.
With 70% of vaccinated we should see cumulative increase about 400 per day on average because the chance of vaccinated people to die "only 10% according to CDC"
But according to reality we do not see significant decrease in the death rate.

 

Reality is what you are avoiding.

Reality is what is actually happening to people when they get infected? Are vaccinated people more or less less likely to die? If they are less likely to die, then this is how we know that the vaccine is working.

So, you take the number of people who die who were vaccinated, divide it by the total number of people who are vaccinated and times that by 100,000. That will give you the mortality rate for vaccinated people.

You repeat for people who are unvaccinated to get a mortality rate for the unvaccinated.

You compare the two mortality rates. Which is higher?

That will tell you if the vaccine is working or not. For real. No hypotheticals required.

 

No one is publishing that data. I could not find the chart where vaccinated deaths rate is compared to unvaccinated death rate.
They can't publish that data because it will expose the lie.
We can rely only on total number of deaths, and rate of increase.
Rate of increase should go down, if vaccinated people have less chances to die.

 

England publishes that data every two weeks. I've given you links to that data

 

I do not know how they are measuring it in UK, most likely sample is small of taken at certain point of time.


The measurements should be made against whole population over time starting from February 2020.

cumulative Number of COVID deaths - total.
cumulative Number of COVID deaths - unvaccinated.
cumulative Number of COVID deaths - vaccinated.

unvaccinated + vaccinated = total.

That is a chart we want.
Otherwise numbers do not add up.

 

Yes, they are posting the data - CDC has a "Vaccine Effectiveness and Breakthrough Surveillance" section.

At last count,

Case rates were 90.90 for vaccinated, 452.32 for unvaccinated.

Death rates were 0.55 for vaccinated, 7.29 for unvaccinated.

Hospitalization rates were 3.9 for vaccinated, 47.3 for unvaccinated.

You can see the charts at the links below. They were posted at the end of Nov and early Dec, updated monthly.
Note that the peaks in deaths and hospitalizations are due to a rise in cases in August and September.

Rates of COVID-19 CASES AND DEATHS by Vaccination Status
The chart is the same for both cases and deaths. There's a box for each on the left of the chart, so you can toggle between the two.
https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#rates-by-vaccine-status

Rates of laboratory-confirmed COVID-19 HOSPITALIZATIONS by vaccination status
https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#covidnet-hospitalizations-vaccination

 

The samples are hospital admissions as shown and linked many times directed to your posts and shows vaccination status of all hospital admissions during every two week periods with the outcome shown for the patients. One such report is https://assets.publishing.service.g...992/Vaccine_surveillance_report_-_week_38.pdf

Another example report is https://assets.publishing.service.g...t_data/file/1012644/Technical_Briefing_21.pdf

 

The main point of those studies is that if vaccine is injected and then, during several weeks person get infected, then infection will be milder. That is all.
But the same result can be achieved with other immune stimulators. I did not see anything about comparing vaccines with immune stimulants in their research.
If we look at the bigger picture, over long period of time with large sample of population there is no reduction in deaths rate has been observed yet.

 

Yes, I know that motivated researchers can produce any desired result.
I am looking at the bigger picture and I do not see anything that tells me that vaccines have any significant effect on the COVID death rate
Definitely the vaccine act as an immune stimulant, but probably stimulation does not last very long time.
It would be interesting to see the studies where vaccines compared with immunologic adjuvants.

 

The whole of England and Wales is the sample population (60 million) and the records cover the whole period from Feb 2021 in two week increments and just from the most recent two week period we see that the unvaccinated over 50s are twice as likely to die from covid and the unvaccinated under 50s are 8 times as likely to die from covid and this is while the effects of the vaccine are seen to wane. You have been shown this loads of times

I notice that you are now changing the subject.

 

Well, the UK chart is different form the US because they have about 5 time less population, but the deaths trend is the same
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/

US - population 340 millions
UK - population 67 millions

340 / 66 ~ 5.15

US - 812,205
UK - 145,826

812,205 / 145,826 ~ 5.5
I think if we count illegals the ratio will be very close to

Let them run more "research" and they will find the truth.
So far with introduction of all dictatorial measures nothing has change dramatically

Your attempt to change topic has been detected.
All the research you have presented is pointing to that vaccines have some temporary effect.

 

You mean the temporary effect that has reduced the vaccinated under 50s of dying early by 800% and the vaccinated over 50s of dying by 200% when compared to the unvaccinated?

And BTW, it is not research, it is counting every Covid hospital admission in England and Wales and seeing their outcome and listing vaccination statgus