Merkel: Germany hit by full force of Covid

Yes, the effect is probably temporary, (assuming that scientists are honest), that is what charts tell us.

 

So when are these vaccinated people that haven't died going to die?. The unvaccinated have already died

 

I do not know when they are going to die, so far the death rate, on average, is about 1100 per day. Once it drops to e.g. 500 per day, then we can probably think about vaccine effectiveness.

 

The death rates are not the product of "motivated researchers" producing "any desired result".

They are the product of a simple mathematical calculation using cold hard numbers reported by health departments across the country.

I find it very difficult to believe that you don't see anything suggesting that the vaccine has any significant effect on death rates.

The effect couldn't be clearer:

Vaccinated rate = 0.55
Unvaccinated = 7.69

The death rate is 14 times higher for unvaccinated. That is a "significant" difference.

You have not until now mentioned "immunologic adjuvants". Like truth and justice, I find it curious that you are suddenly switching topics, and even stranger that you would accuse them of doing so when their responses have been distinctly on topic - the impact of vaccines on death rates.

 

You clearly do not understand the data.. That 1100 dying consists of a higher rate of unvaccinated people dying than vaccinated people dying hence that does demonstrate the vaccine effectiveness

 

In that case we should see the reduction of deaths, but it is not happening.
The average deaths number stubbornly increases without any kind of change in the moving average rate.

Let's say we have 100000 infected people unvaccinated (no vaccine is available).

1% of those people dies i.e. 1000.


Let's say we have got a vaccine.

800 vaccinated will die at the rate of 0.1% instead of 1% (according to CDC) i.e. 80
200 unvaccinated are still going to die at the rate of 1%. i.e. 200

Total number should be around 280.

Instead of 280 we still have about 1000 (may be 950).

 

That is only possible if number of infection cases has increased dramatically, i.e. 10 times more then current rate of infections.
So far the rate of infection is approximately the same.

 

The data shows that a much higher rate of death is occurring in the unvaccinated. Why do you keep ignoring that?

 

Why do you keep ignoring his point? He IS right, you know.

 

Your methodology is wrong, wrong, wrong!

It's so fundamentally wrong that's it's difficult to even explain it to you, because the fact that you are so oblivious to the glaring and fundamental error in your methodology makes me question whether it's even possible to make you understand your error.

I have, however, tried on numerous occasions.

Again, the efficacy of the vaccine is NOT determined by the number of deaths.

It is determined by what actually happens to people who are infected and vaccinated compared to people who are infected and unvaccinated. That's what counts - what happens to actual bodies. Are vaccinated people more or less likely to die? This is determined by calculating and comparing the death rates for each group, which are as follows:

0.55 for vaccinated people and 7.69 for the unvaccinated.

It's that simple. And absolutely anyone of almost any numerate age or mental capacity can conclude from these rates that the vaccine makes a significant difference.

I suspect that the reason you cling so relentlessly to your utterly erroneous and quite frankly utterly nonsensical methodology is not entirely a consequence of limited understanding but in large part a self-serving avoidance tactic, because you're unwilling to face this stark and glaring reality that the vaccine works. Your own methodology "just happens" to give you a reason to disagree.

 

In what way is using hypothetical figures showing he is right?

 

Look dude, this is not that freaking hard. Tell me, what happens to the death rate if # of infections are held constant and the population of vaccinated increases?

 

If you can get covid you can die from it. You can get covid even if you are vaccinated.

 

Yes, I'm aware of that but the discussion is around vax efficacy.

 

And to the US but hell, votes is votes

 

You could see the drop in death numbers between the second and third waves of Texas (half vaccinated) and Massachusetts (three quarters vaccinated ) to see a difference:
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/texas/
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/massachusetts/

 

Read your post that I responded to, I think my response fits.

 

Because numbers do not quite add up.
We know that, on average every day about 1000 people are dying from COVID in 2021
In 2020 (before vaccine discovery) the average number was also about 1000 per day.

If we assume that out of those 1000 deaths 900 are not vaccinated and infection rate stayed approximately the same, that would mean that virus deadliness suddenly has increased 9 folds and its fatality is on par with Ebola
I did not hear that deadliness of COVD has increased that much, even from CNN

 

Yea, but still that steady average deaths rate should be explained somehow.
It can be explained either by sudden almost 10 fold increase in deadliness of COVID virus or 10 fold increase in the number of infections, or simply inefficiency of the vaccines.