Multiple Iranian ballistic missiles smash into US Army base in Iraq with huge fireball explosion

You believe as you wish, but I know myself better. I had pragmatic sympathy for the Shah's foreign policy, was never too focused on what were nonetheless clear contradictions with my westernized, classical liberal, beliefs when it came to Israel and the Zionist project, and was definitely not pro Soviet or exposed even to pro Soviet propaganda. I lived in America and my news came mostly from CNN, PBS, watched CSPAN, and read mostly the NYT or Los Angeles Times. The books I read about Israel or the Israel-Palestinian conflict were mostly by centerist or center right authors. I was exposed to the rise of the neocons (not in the way you like to define it) through US mainstream media. It wasn't only later when I broadened my horizons and read articles in more left of center publications such as counterpunch with whom I still disagreed on many issues (but not the nature of the neocon movement as described here). Since then, I have learned each side's biases, but I generally like the New Yorker for being often good and insightful. But above all, my main gravitational pull to take a more focused anti-Israeli stance is a reflection of the pro Israel's lobby obsession with Iran.

 

What do you mean, the way I like to define the rise of the neocons? I don't recall telling you my opinion on neocons.

Counterpunch is not left of center, at least not according to traditional definitions of "left" and "center". It's a far left hateful rag.

To understand how Soviet anti-Zionism found its way into the mainstream, and is still a major factor influencing views on Israel and Jews, read this short brilliant essay:
https://www.abc.net.au/religion/zionism-and-the-big-lie/11519628

I grew up in a country that fully embraced Soviet style anti-Zionism. The exact same talking points presented by journalists of that regime are peddled today by mainstream news outlets like Reuters, CNN, The New York Times, BBC. I don't need essays to tell me what I already know, but you can't read my mind, so essay it is for you.

I'm sick and tired of the "pro-Israel lobby" mantra. The so-called lobby is in fact composed of several organizations, some on the right, some on the left, some religious, some Jewish, some Christian, each with its own agenda, each sometimes in agreement with and sometimes opposed to the policies of various Israeli governments. It blows my mind that so many otherwise sane people consider all Zionists worldwide a one-minded hive-like collective. Kind of like the extreme right consider all Muslims worldwide a one-minded hive-like collective of dangerous, primitive religious fanatics bent on world domination.

Did you know that one organization of the pro-Israel lobby, the left leaning J Street. supported the JCPOA? They were Obama's darlings.

Ever asked yourself why is the pro-Israel lobby obsessed with Iran?

 

You have a habit of making valid, sobering points, and you've made a few more in that post, too....

Well over a year ago, in self-defense, Israel should have gone ahead and turned most of Iran above ground level into a cloud of ash and radioactive vapor. Those nuclear laboratories hundreds of feet below the Iranian surface couldn't survive too very long if everything above them is uninhabitable for decades....

 

Nope (to both paragraphs).

The Iranian people is not the enemy. Their leaders are.

 

That's always the line we hear and yet it's the people who are shooting at each other. Leadership sits in a protected cocoon and says when and how much shooting to do. The people do it. No, leadership in other countries is as accepted and respected as it is here, maybe more so based on recent political history in the US.

 

I wrote a few words on the nature of the pro Israeli lobby here. I don't feel like expanding on it right now. But may do so later. But J-Street tries to represent American Jews, a majority of whom didn't often endorse the positions of the Israeli government on a host of issues. J-Street is by name and character an American lobby to represent American Jews, not specifically pro Israeli government lobby. AIPAC is different, even by definition.

 

I'm an old guy who remembers the Iranian Revolution which put the Islamo-Nazis in Tehran in power in 1978.

As I recall, it was huge throngs of "the Iranian people" you mention, all over Iran who did this, and who brought their insane Islamic 'priesthood' into absolute power in the Iranian government most joyfully!

 

Most of our leaders were once on the front lines, so yeah, they are accepted, respected, and we trust them to know how much shooting to do. Couldn't say that about Iranian leaders though.

My point was that it would be wrong to condemn an entire nation to doom because they have the misfortune of having bad leaders.

 

So what? Should we punish their descendants forever?

 

The comments here are Exhibit A in why Iran actually needs nuclear deterrence.

 

Didn't say "Everyone" .. Mr. "Fallacy"

Speaking of Flat Earthers though .... did you wish to claim there is no "Israeli Lobby"

 

So again: the claim was that "Israel is the main lobbyist in the US." Agreed?

 

No ... that was not the claim.

 

It was EXACTLY the claim. Right here: http://www.politicalforum.com/index...eball-explosion.597935/page-2#post-1073320893

 

That's someone elses claim .. not mine.

 

AGAIN, I did not say YOUR claim! I said THE claim! THIS claim: http://www.politicalforum.com/index...eball-explosion.597935/page-2#post-1073320893

 

Not my claim .. don't care about someone elses claim.

 

Apparently you DO care, because you commented on it here: http://www.politicalforum.com/index...eball-explosion.597935/page-3#post-1073325261

 

AIPAC is huge and powerful

 

That's spending. If a lobby group already has members in powerful positions they don't need to spend to influence policies. The Israeli lobby is huge and powerful

 

What does that have to do with anything that I have said?

 

A comment to someone else ... you are making no sense.

 

You replied to THIS post which was in reply to the claim in question: http://www.politicalforum.com/index...eball-explosion.597935/page-3#post-1073325227

 

Not really. Please keep in mind that this forum is not one of those state-sponsored propaganda outlets so dear to dictatorial regimes. The opinions in the posts are posters' own, not a nationwide trend shaping foreign policy. Free speech, freedom of opinion - you know, those western trinkets you pretty much gave up on when you decided to live in Iran.

Yes, I know I'm being mean, and I apologize if my words hurt your patriotic feelings, but you should know by now that I'm talking about the regime, not the nation.