I got married at 19 after high school. My wife at the time, Claudia wanted kids. I told her she wasn't ready. She was a twin. Her twin sister had 2 kids by the time she was 24. Claudia also had an older sister with 2 kids, a girl and a boy. Me and Claudia had no kids. Mainly because I didn't want any. Still don't. One day she came back and told me that she was pregnant, that she had gone to Planned Parenthood and they told her she was pregnant. Although we used protection. I told her to go see a real doctor because I didn't trust the people at PP. That they sometimes tell you that you are pregnant and want to charge you money for an abortion, at that time it was like 300 dollars, this was back in the 90s. Basically, girls were going to PP and paying 300 dollars for abortions, that were really just spoon scrapes on the uterus wall. Maybe I was wrong for being so cold about it. But how can you really be sure you are pregnant just by some stupid color on a stick? I wanted some more proof and told her to go back. I did tell her that we should discuss talking about abortion...but that I wanted to be sure she was really pregnant before we talked about it. I was young and wasn't really thinking that I hurt her feelings by doubting her. I wasn't going to tell her to get the abortion, I just told her I wanted to discuss it...never saying she should get it. Anyway, she comes back one day from work and tells me she just had the abortion, that the PP people did it for her and that it was nothing...just a scrape on the wall, that she didn't feel a thing. I was confused, and kinda mad...but got over it. Two years ago when I saw her at the funeral, she blames me for it. Saying it was my fault she did it. Well, now you know why I'm against abortion. Sorry I had to come out with this.
Jedi - you didn't even want kids back then, so why were you angry that she had an abortion? You even told her you should discuss it together, why bring up the subject if you didn't want her to have one?
I just wanted to talk about it Mak. I didn't know too much about abortions back then. I was like 25. I just wasn't educated on that stuff too much and I was a democrat.
I am really confused, a girl who you (*)(*)(*)(*)ed got pregnant and had an abortion, when you didnt want kids, but you treated her like (*)(*)(*)(*), and now you are against abortion. Wow, call me confused!
How did I treat her bad? I was actually very nice to her. I have always been against abortion...but it wasn't my choice..it was her's..yet I get blamed for it. Why should I feel guilty about it?
So were you "actually very nice to her" or were you "wrong to be so cold about it"? You are contradicting yourself. Did you tell her to see a "real doctor" or did you tell her to "go back"? Your whole story is confusing and doesn't really explain why you are against abortion. What did you mean by "the funeral"? Whose funeral?
I wanted her to go back and show me some proof...like an Xray or something...I wanted her to go to a doctor..not planned parenthood. because I never trusted PP. They are only doing it for the money and I still don't know if she was actually pregnant or not, because it was only like a week. So what happened really? I don't know..what I'm saying is that I think PP just tells girls they are pregnant, they believe it there and then...pay up and never get a second opinion. How do they actually know they are pregnant? because some clerck tells them? that's what i'm saying. I need more proof than some Planned parenthood clerck with a spoon waiting for a payment. my mothers funeral.
Thanks for sharing Jedi. A lot of people have made decisions that they later on regret, and based on my experience working with people, I would say that its important to acknowledge this, and then move on. sounds like you were both young, and although she blamed you, ultimately she made the decision herself. If she felt pressured, it may be because there was communication issues, or its also possible you don't remember exactly what you said, or understood how that may have impacted on her. regardless, its the past. she needs to come to terms with it in her own way, and blaming you is not going to help her. for you, taking a strong anti abortion stance also won't help. you arguing that other women are wrong to make the same decision that your wife did is not helpful to them or to you. other people make decisions for their own reasons. also, you might want to think about how you phrase things. In that other thread where we were discussing this issue, you were saying that men nevr kill their own children. a lot of guys are just like you were. not ready, maybe scared, and they are the first to say let's get rid of it. Its my personal opinion that a lot of people who don't think they are ready to be parents surprise themselves if they do continue and have the baby, and cope a lot better than they would have imagined - even very young people. but at the same time, if they don't feel ready, nobody has the right to force them. we can't know what might have happened if things had turned out differently. thats one of the hard things in life - the what ifs .... but no doubt there are other things that may not have happened, so you can;t ever say it would be better if we'd done x instead of y, because you just don't know. I really haven't met many people who regret having babies, but I have sometimes met people who have engaged in "what if I hadn't" because of course their lives would often be very different. Among those who feel guilt for having had an abortion (as both you and your ex wife appear to) there usually is regret. But often the regret is symptomatic of general unhappiness with the way their lives are - and not even specifically related to having had an abortion.
The most interesting part of this thread is the accusation that planned parenthood fakes abortions for money. Do you have any proof of this? I'm not doubting you. It happens a lot in medicine, from unnecessary surgery, to kids getting tubes in their ears who don't need them.
I dismissed that. I really don' think they have enough resources to be faking stuff like this, and quite frankly I just dismissed it as symptomatic of a particular world view. I also wonder how many people who are in the anti abortion camp have ever gone to PP and discussed things with them. I can't imagine that they are that much different from FPA here, and therefore they would be very professional. that said, in the US especially I understand that there are a significant number of unnecessary procedures performed - but that is a function of the way your health care system is set up.
The only thing I know of PP as a man is free rubbers. Bags and bags of them if wanted. Still to this day don't know why anyone pays for rubbers, or have children they can't afford.
Um...I'm a conservative, for the most part. The origins of planned parenthood are very disingenuous. There is a reason why they draw so much ire from public in the know. I just know better than to look a gift horse in the mouth.
LMAO. There was a time when killing Indians and slavery were hardly unique, yet the US as a whole is still made to feel guilty to this day. Such is the nature of time and evolution. I miss the days when people said what they meant and meant what they said. For all its misdeeds, the past had its perks. The only way to look at PP is Eugenics in motion. Why deny the obvious, or even worse, paint the turd gold? At least slavery and the murder of Indians has been abolished. Eugenics is still in full effect, with many, even on this forum, fighting for it daily.
I understand that Margaret Sanger's reasoning was that birth control could be used to "improve the race" so to speak, and that she was in many ways what people today might refer to as a"white supremacist". But it was a different time and place, and while its easy to criticise with the benefit of the last 80 years, a lot of the ideas we have today would be quite shocking to people back then. successive waves of immigrants were seen as inferior. tday they make up the melting pot that is American society (same is tru eof Australian society), but back then things were very different. even in the sixties/seventies society was still much more divided on the basis of ethnicity - and that was years after the eugenics movement had pretty much died out. my understanding was that she was mainly concerned about the plight of poor women. there is no doubt that family planning and access to birth control has made a huge difference in the lives of women, and for Sanger, the eugenics issue wss not the primary focus. I think it is important not to throw the baby out with the bathwater, so to speak. I also get your point about america being blamed for the sins of the past. all nations have skeletons in their closets. its important to acknwledge them - and to highlight when people are using the same arguments again, but I certainly don't insist in you saying mea culpa for the sins of the past - anymore thanI would want you to point the finger at me for the sins of my country's past (including the treatment of aborigines ... which is still not fully addressed, and the white australia policy). what is important is that we learn from our history, and do not repeat the prejudices and discriminatory practices of the past.
So because you acted a certain way, you want to impose your own views, based off your own experiences on everyone else!?! WOW. Now go away and keep your own views to yourself.
Quick summary: You made a woman pregnant, you made her go to a Dr, you didn't go with her, she had an abortion, she blamed you, you was a democrat. Now, you're full of guilt and now a Republican and have the right to impose your now 100% reversed position on abortion onto everyone else, regardless of the fact that their circumstances are most likely to be very different to yours. WOW!
So because the founder of PP was an eugenics supporter (as was a lot of people back then), todays PP is practicing eugenics? That does not follow.
You actually think that planned parenthood tells people they are pregnant just to give them a fake abortion?! Wtf? How easy would this be to prove? Are you seriously implying that girls are that freaking stupid that they either don't already know they are, or suspect t it? You are saying that girls walk into planned parenthood being told they are pregnant and immediately sign up for an abortion? Where is your proof that planned parenthood has been caught doing this?
