Noah's flood its reality

Some people don't think as you do.
As demonstrated by this video, it is not an isolated idea.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSdze_yYeKc

 

Given the title of the thread you surely have all the information available. Do you believe the flood of Noah's time occurred? Simples.

What a 6 day poof is I have no idea.

 

World wide defines the myth.. Mt Everest is nearly 6 miles high and has been for millions of years.

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Look the the use of "water" throughout the Bible.. Water is considered "life giving" ... like the words of the Christ.

 

Thanks. Not heard that one. Though I do enjoy Southern Country Gospel Music.

 

There is where the problem comes into the picture. All you have is the use of number magic to support your claim. Numbers and computerized gadgetry are only too easy to manipulate to cause them to provide an output that is supportive of any agenda.

Well of course.. that is probably a reason the guy in the song is asking that the wine be changed back into water... to replenish his life as opposed to the constant destruction of his life through the use of wine.

 

We geese don't suffer from the bends . Though we are sometimes stuffed at Christmas

 

LOLOL.. Do you think the mountains popped out of the ground AFTER the flood?

Read Genesis again.

The flood story dates from 2900 BC and was about a flood on the Euphrates river. Sumer is very flat.

 

Again, you have answered the variable regarding the time frame, but did not address the height of those mountains during the time of Noah.

Well, that makes two of us. I suppose we will just have to wait for the originator of that phrase to give response.

 

Mt Everest is about 60 million years old.. Have you ever herd of tectonic plates?

 

I am very familiar with the story of Genesis. It makes no mention of the height of the mountains. Remember: Geological formations are in a constant state of change. Upheavals and destruction of mountains are no strangers in parts of the Earth.

Well, I find it strange that you desire to use the Genesis story (one which you don't believe happened) to support your claim regarding "Sumer". If you reject the Bible as a valid evidence, then it also cannot be a valid evidence in relation to 'Sumer'. Some Theists even believe that the Genesis story is a parable. As such, all of the interpretations you are using about the Genesis story could be completely out in left field.

 

There is plenty of evidence for Sumer and flooding.. including flood sediment..

There is NO evidence for the Genesis story of a world wide flood. The story of the flood in Sumer is that it lasted 4 days and was 150 miles wide and 350 miles long.

The king was hauling beer, grain and livestock down river when his barges broke loose and ended up in Bahrain.

 

So your version of the 'flood story' goes.

 

Its not my version.. It existed long before Genesis ....

 

Procrastination again. I asked a simple question. Do you believe the flood of Noah's time occurred?


I add this. You know the Bible story. Is it true?

 

Again. You did not provide the information pertaining to the variables. Until you do make such provisions, your information is not sufficient to allow an informed decision based on the subjective nature of the Bible (being open to interpretation by anyone and everyone).

 

[video=youtube;FRTlT3DEydU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRTlT3DEydU&feature=player_embedded[/video]

 

OK. If you won't answer I'll leave it.

 

You don't know how strong the winds would have needed to be, as you don't know the depth of the water or the way the tides worked on such a long, narrow sea thousands of years ago. It certainly isn't clear where they crossed, and and others point out that it's quite possible they were even naming a different body of water.

I hope this shows that trying to explain how this story could have actually happened in the way the Bible described isn't possible. There are multiple huge problems, some of which have solutions that are not consistent with the text that has made it to us today through the myriad translations.

Noah story simply can't have worked the way as claimed, either - unless it is one gigantic miracle from beginning to end, or an allegory or other such escape from reality, presumably for he purpose of making a point.

The idea of a world wide flood comes with a list of impossible problems.

Today, our atmosphere holds enough water to cover the earth to a depth of an additional - one inch.
Those who believe this flood story postulate a huge vapor canopy that we don't see today, but that would increase vapor pressure to an extent that would be a problem for human life just based on air pressure - nitrogen in the blood. But, increased pressure also means increased heat, with anywhere near the volume required for covering the earth also raising earth's temperature at the surface to levels that humans can't withstand.
That amount of water vapor would also block out the stars and seriously reduce sunlight. The Bible says God created the stars as a clock for us - but humans wouldn't even have known they existed.
Condensing water releases heat, and a global rainstorm of adequate volume would need a place to put hundreds or even thousands of degrees of global temperature (depending on the depth of flood you want to choose).
Once here, there is no place for this water to go. Some supposedly "rose from the deep", but we know what is down there today. So, it didn't go back to "the deep", nor is there any sign of a place such a volume could have come from. After all, water isn't compressible to any significant extent, so the only way to remove that volume would require the surrounding structure to collapse. Even if it came from the deep, it couldn't "go back".
Cosmology of the time held that the earth was like a flat disk with water below, covered by a protecting dome with water above as well. God would have only needed to open a "door" to the "deep" or the "firmament". But, that cosmology is very dead.
Evaporating that amount of water would have frozen the planet - remember how it feels cool to step out of the shower in front of a fan, then multiply by the size of the flood.
And, we don't have evidence of this volume of water or evidence of it's movement - giant gorges, consistent sediment layers, etc.

Of course, the above are just problems with the water.

Not only do you have to believe that this was one long gigantic miracle, but that it was conducted in a way to fool us - making God a trickster.

 

No, this kind of "either/or" makes no sense. We know there are events in the Bible that correspond to actual historic events.

But, that doesn't mean that there is no allegory in the Bible. And, it doesn't mean that the words that have come to us today are being interpreted by us in a way that leaves us with a factually accurate account.

 

Neither do the adherents of science. Care to speculate some more?

More speculation.

That is exactly what I was pointing out. The many many problems that even the adherents of science can not answer because of their lack of recorded data.

Well, that is where 'free will' comes into play. People are free to believe whatever they choose to believe.

yeah. I listed a few of them. One being the exact time of the event not known; two, the exact geographical layout for that time period is not KNOWN... (currently it is based on a set of magic numbers), and a few other little things that I previously mentioned. Those are problems to the scientists and adherents of science to resolve in a manner that does not depend on a set of magic numbers.

Magic word in the above is "Today". Does science KNOW the exact numbers for that unknown time frame?

Actually you should have stated that "Some" would make that postulation. Your inference is that 'all' believers would so postulate.

Has any of the science foundations ever attempted such an experiment on the Earth itself and not in a laboratory? If not, then are you again using a set of magic numbers? But that would mean that science is attempting to prove something.... Science does not prove anything. Just speculates.

I presume that you mean the people would not know the stars existed due to the alleged thick vapor and clouds. IF that were the case (extremely thick vapor and cloud cover)... maybe.

And you have already admitted that nobody knows the conditions regarding the Red Sea story, which was much more modern than the flood story, so how can anyone know the conditions of a time period more distant?

Know, that is your story above, and I do not have to believe it. However, for the benefit of what you have stated especially in your closing statement. ...Labeling God as a "trickster" is IMHO a compliment to God because it shows that He is able to outsmart even the most brilliant of men.

 

The point is that the Moses story has multiple serious problems bringing into question its factual nature. Only one is claimed to be solved by a miracle, and that one has other possible explanations.

The flood story includes specific claims that have known scientific ramifications that have no rational explanation.

We know the heat equations for condensing and evaporating water. We know about vapor pressure. These can be easily calculated by first year chemistry students. We know about the composition of the earth, including where the water is and how much there is. We know what happens when light passes through water vapor. We know about the physiological effects of pressure on animals including humans. We have substantial knowledge of sediment layers from different parts of the world. The Noah story has no explanation for any of the impossibilities that these present - other than it being one long and massive miracle from beginning to end.

Christians (plus Jews and Muslims) do not see God as a trickster - you are WAY wrong on that being a compliment. It is not that a god couldn't trick us - it has to do with there being a god that has that as his intent. The trickster god we have today is the Satan.

 

They know a lot about the Red Sea and its age....

It has no tidal action and its very warn because of vents on the surface.


http://www.politicalforum.com/showthread.php?t=334816&highlight=red+sea+formation

 

Regardless of what explanation is given, there will always be multiple serious problems. The greatest of these IMO is the time frame question. When did all of this take place. Without being able to accurately show the exact number of years ago, problems will always be there.

"no rational explanation." Amazing. Well, it is pretty well understood that these "religionists" (I used that terminology and spelling due to another member using it --- perhaps as the coinage of a new term) are not rational anyway. So it is not surprising that a non-theist would find that some of the writings in the Bible are also presented in a way that precludes others from seeing a 'rational explanation.'

Is that an absolute certainty on where and how much? Or is that another example of number magic?

Are you then suggesting that the Noah story is a "miracle"?

Well, I am not the typical Christian. So how does that make me "way wrong"? Are you suggesting that those other Christians are "way right"?

Then are you suggesting that Satan is a better trickster than God? That would mean that Satan is the Omnipotent and Omniscient one. Do you have substantiating evidence to support that claim? Or are you more simply stating that it was Satan who tricked you and the tricking was not an act of God?

 

Religionist, trailer -parker, 'parker, goddist, goddie, theocreologist, creosite and creogument

They are all officially in the public domain now, my contribution.

 

And what are the meaning of those various terms?