Once Gay, always Gay?

Nah, wrong. A strictly heterosexual person could in no way get off by having sex with someone of the same gender. The real answer is that sexuality is not black and white with a halfway point in between, it is a spectrum. There are many, many people whom are to all intents and purposes heterosexual but given a specific set of circumstances are able to convert to homosexual practises.

 

No, I'm not wrong... and I won't waste a lot of time debating that. I know from my own experiences and those of others. Mechanics of sex are just that, mechanical. The emotional and relational aspects are something much more complex/deep.

Yes, there is a LOT more to human sexuality than many people ever seek to know.

Really? A homosexual ACT, is not the same thing as a homosexual-orientation. Yes, and there are many gay people who ACT straight in every way. So, while I agree that is complex stuff overall... it is certainly a reality.

 

To willingly engage in homosexual behaviour means that person is not 100 percent heterosexual. You dont agree?

 

I see your point. And my primary point is not to place them on the "Kinsey Scale"... just pointing out that there are emotional/relational elements to human sexuality, not just physical aspects.

So, I don't think we totally disagree; I just think we place greater emphases upon certain things concerning human sexuality.

 

Of course, I agree. The problem with the Kinsey scale is theres only 6 points on it where as in real life sexuality is almost infinitely variable. However societal conditioning is the main determining factor in how individuals view their own sexuality in my opinion and not physical orientation.

 

I never told you that. Do you study the construction of straw men at the feet of President Obama.

I believe some people are born gay. I think some people are gay situationally. Some people seem to be ambivalent or bisexual.

So, your "you all" is short by at least one person.

 

You see, this is the reason I started this thread, to prove how many of you who are gay are just confused. You don't know if you were born that way. You don't know if you can change. One thing you SHOULD know is that you CAN CHANGE your future...Nothing is set in stone as we have free will. You have a choice to be a homo or not. The excuse of saying you are born that way is long gone. You simply want to live your life that way...Genes have nothing to do with it, because all of us have both sexes in our genes. All Men have a feminine side and all women have a male side. You have to choice the right side that's obviously in the mirror, very simple.

 

You are out of order Leo.

 

Well, you have not proven that.

So, what now?

But one DOES tend to know what is chosen consciously in their lives. Whether or not that fits some 'religious' standard, isn't always clear.

One can choose to ACT in certain ways; sexual-orientation isn't proven to be chosen, in any way. So, what exactly do you mean by "change"?

No. One can change their view of facing the "future"; there is not knowing/changing of one's "future". I don't deny that faith, hope and love can be applied to facing one's "future". But this notion of saying one knows or can change some "future"... is generally foolish arrogance.

Live/death are set in stone (is a most real sense). I know what you're saying overall, and there is some validity to it. But please, don't try to sell the notion that nothing is certain in this world. Many things are as assured as the sun hanging in space. Free will (to keep it short), is subjective and as challenged by circumstance and limited autonomy as most other things in this reality. Don't try telling people they'll SURELY get whatever they work very hard at; there is no such guarantee. Still, I agree that working hard at one's goals builds a certain type of 'character' which is usually a 'virtue'.

Now I realize that you are neither wise nor serious here; you lack compassion, sensitivity and the very grace you should likely be exhibiting. Who told you or what told you that using the term "homo" is right/okay? Are you serious? That is the BEST indicator so far, that you should likely be ignored here (IMO).

Whether one is absolutely born that way, isn't the only thing to consider. If you think that it is, then you really don't know what you are talking about here.

You are making things up; at this point I find that completely ignorant and disgusting. Why are you promoting more lies, in an era where they make you look foolish , and are surely misleading to others? You express yourself above as if you know what you're saying, but really it is based upon the same DARKLY-LIT view which has plagued humanity for many millenia. Science has something to tell you; likely things that you don't want to or believe you should. Sorry... you (and others) cannot actually sell that BS forever; you cannot erase knowledge. Many people know better than what you're saying here.

Genes are indeed a significant PART of the overall equation; what you say about them contributing "nothing", shows clearly that you don't know the things of which you speak. There are likely many factors which determine a person's sexual-orientation (sexuality). If you want to rationalize it down to your religious beliefs or ideas based upon the same... then that is your choice; that doesn't account for the many other REAL facts that laymen and experts now know about human sexuality. Sorry.

Okay. What exactly does that mean, and how would you suggest that be measured? Does role-play determine the proportions leading to one's sexual-orientation, or are you more concerned with the choices of role-play primarily?

No, it isn't that "simple" and that is an underlying fallacy of your overall premise. In fact, it take little thought and only cursory knowledge to show you that you're wrong, much less the reality that science has proven that wrong MANY times over.

Please, stop working to mislead people.

 

But if Jedi's views are based primarily upon 'religion' (which handles human sexuality in a very limited fashion), he WILL "...go on about..." homosexuality, as the way he was/is indoctrinated will likely compel him to.

If that is the case, I understand it well because I used to be just like that years ago.

Unfortunately, many who are indoctrinated as certain religious people are... are obsessively concerned about homosexuality. And really, there is no accounting for that, it is a part of what they've been taught to think/believe; they build their perceptions of nearly everything AROUND those heavily instilled beliefs. I know, I've LIVED it and I've witnessed it; I understand it and in many ways continue to sympathize with it.

What many cannot overcome (via religion and/or their version of "common sense"), is the cognitive dissonances generated by various people's overly-simplistic analyses of human sexuality. Some take their religion, prejudices and often irrational animus and apply it as a "filter" upon reality; thinking that others should/must do the same. Ultimately that leads to great frustration and consternation, in a reality that is just BIGGER than their own worldview.

Faith is good... but NOT when it is imposed or applied to coerce others to a certain mindset.

 

No. Leo, in so many words... has called you on your claim. He was/is right to hold the position which he does.

 

Thanks Johnny - I know of no one who goes on about homosexuality the way Jedi does. In fact I have quite a good friend at school who professes to be gay. He only told me about it because we are quite close friends, and after we had discussed the situation briefly, neither of us have found it necessary to make mention of the fact again.

I do not claim to understand homosexuality, (I do not believe that anyone who is not gay does,) but what my friend does, and what his preferences are, are none of my business, just as my sexuality should not concern him. He is a good bloke and that is enough for me.

My gay friend is one of the most decent people I know, and I find it offensive that anyone should mouth off about gays in general (anyone who does that at school has me and my mates to answer to). People are people, whether they are black, yellow, white, religious or non-religious, socialist or capitalist, heterosexual, bisexual or homosexual - no one has the right to judge or decry them, especially on those things over which they have no control.

Also, most heterosexual people, including myself, spend very little time thinking about homosexuality, and I always suspect that people who frequently gay-bash, may have some personal issues regarding their own sexuality.

 

You are spot-on!! You've just described the way that many should view others in this reality. I sincerely hope/pray that many more learn and practice what you've just shared above.

Thank You!!

 

well said

it is the way think you will find most people feel. We could care less about what you do in your bedrrom and believe that those who are gay feel the same about heterosexuals.

How you have sex does not determine the kind of person you are

 

...the emergence of "plastic sexuality," "confluent love," and the "pure relationship" as democratic and desirable alternatives to a sexuality harnessed to reproduction, love based on addictive or co-dependent relationships, and the rights and obligations of traditional marriage. The separation of sexuality from procreation entails its freedom from heterosexuality and its emergence as an individual attribute, something individuals can develop, enjoy, change or project as part of their changing definition of the self. Sexuality becomes plastic because the self itself has broken the bounds of traditional institutional expectations and it is now free to constitute and reconstitute itself in a series of narratives answering to nothing else but the growing freedom of individuals to develop their potential.
http://www.colorado.edu/Sociology/gimenez/work/GIDDENS.TXT


We also know that many genes, maybe hundreds, are involved
in human behaviours, and that behaviours affected by many genes
will change very slowly over very many generations (Chapter One).
That is, they will be very stable for centuries, with only minimal
changes from generation to generation. This is true not only in
families, but also in cultures.But if we look at homosexuality,
we find none of the characteristics of genetic properties.

• There is a huge variety of homosexual practices between
cultures and even within them.
• The prevalence of homosexuality has varied considerably
in different cultures. In some cultures, it has been unknown; in
others, it has been obligatory for all males.
• There have been, and are, rapid changes in homosexual
behaviour, even over a lifetime. Not only that, but entire types
of homosexuality have disappeared over the course of just a
few centuries. In fact, anthropologists have found such huge variations
in heterosexual and homosexual practice from culture to culture, and
such sudden changes in sexual practice and orientation, even over
a single generation, that they mostly want to say that all sexual
behaviour is learned. In the words of one writer J. Rostand, “In the
secret coming together of two human bodies, all society is the third
presence.”
http://www.mygenes.co.nz/PDFs/Ch6.pdf

 

So are you saying Johnny isnt a homosexual? Or do your rules that apply to "strictly heterosexual"s not apply to those who are strictly homosexuals?

 

Or are you thinking that Johnny is a homosexual?

How do YOU define one's sexual-orientation? Can you tell us all?

 

Dont be afraid to come out of the closet. Dont fight your bisexuality, embrace it.

 

I wouldnt define someones sexuality. It would appear that you and Ian have declared yourselves as the definers of others sexuality.

 

Good point but as I stated, sexuality is a spectrum. I thought I made that point abundantly clear. My opinion that strictly hetero or homo people couldnt get off with the opposite sex is my opinion but it is up to the individual how they define themselves.

 

What are you talking about?

 

No, not really. You should go back through the things I've said, and see that you're incorrect.

 

I agree that sexuality is better defined as a "spectrum" of attraction.

And I'd add that many people mistake gender role-playing for sexual-orientation. Those two things are not always synonymous with each other.

 

I grew up as most young boys 'hating' girls (esp since I had a big sister who used to push me around). But at some point, girls started looking pretty good as they hit puberty and became opposite in build/appearance to me (as they say, 'opposites attract'); and for me as a pubescent boy, looking at another hairy man with the same junk as me, didnt turn me on....I dont get turned on when doing my daily bodily functions, and so dont understand homosexual attraction to the same sex.

I still (having had male homosexual friends in college) see it as misplaced 'phileo' love (Greek for 'brotherly love', as a male friendship, such as father for a son, etc.) that has been mis-directed. I love my father and my son, but have no sexual attraction for them.

 

Right. I 'personally' didn't ever 'hate' girls; some had the typical 'drama' that comes with the roles they are taught... but overall, as a young child I didn't shy away from any other kids (male/female).

When I reached puberty, I began to sense sexual interest in 'males'; this was as surprising a thing to myself, as it likely would have been to my parents and siblings (had I told them). I just HID those sexual feelings, pushed them down out of sight and continued to grow up; same as other kids... but concealing that ONE major thing about myself. It wasn't a comfortable thing, but I learned a few positives from it that serve me to this day.

Even so, I don't believe that kids should have to 'hide' their sexual-orientation, and that is changing today; thank God.

Well, what you say above works for YOUR 'faith', but it doesn't address human sexuality per se. I too have family, and I know the love of family (storge) and experienced awesome amounts of brotherly-love (phileo) with the many 'platonic' relationships I had with males.

You see, what a lot of heterosexual people either do not understand or will not acknowledge, is that gay men aren't 'sexually' and 'emotionally' attracted (eros) to every other man. I have brothers, and I've had romantic relationships with certain men over time. I know the differences of which you speak, and so do MILLIONS of other homosexual people in this world.

So please, try to understand that the model which fits your own worldview, may be subject to adjustment, as you find out 'more' of what's out here in reality. I am a man of faith myself, but I can only tell you that the faith I have 'now'... isn't exactly what I started out with. I too had beliefs/thoughts as you express above; I even THOUGHT that my homosexual 'feelings' were a passing phase and I prayed ALL THE TIME and resisted years of urges... only to find out decades later, that I was indeed STILL homosexual.

I'm telling you, that is no easy journey; your faith is TESTED severely... in ways that few who are heterosexual could ever relate to. As a boy, I had a keen interest in "Christian" faith/religion; it was all-good, until this 'homosexual' stuff manifested itself in my person. Oh yeah, I was (figuratively-speaking) the last person on earth that would have "chosen" to be a homosexual. And did I try to reject homosexuality? You can bet that I did.

But what can you say about a 15, 16, 17, 18.... 25 year old guy, who wouldn't get hard even if they kissed or brushed up against HOT NAKED WOMAN (much less just see them naked)? No emotional drive or interest for that whatsoever... is a bit of an 'indication' (that many would understand). At some point, you know you aren't heterosexual, even through the BARRIERS erected by your own 'religious' beliefs (which are typically powerful for most anyone).

So, while I understand your viewpoint... I can tell you that it doesn't apply universally. There is more to the equation, than what you appear to think or believe. That is reality.