Part 31 of Post Your Tough Questions Regarding Christianity>>MOD WARNING<<

It most certainly does, but you're free to not answer it. I wouldn't want you to defeat yourself by answering a question contrary to what you've made yourself to believe.

...The last throes of a defeated opponent.

 

Really, what does black discrimination in America have to do with Tough Questions Regarding Christianity?

 

I've made my point clear twice already. Here's the point.
Just because you believe something isn't true, doesn't mean it isn't. (I.E.) Most white Americans believe black Americans are no longer discriminated against in this country, even though they are.

 

Why do you not believe the stories of the Bhagavad Gita and believe in Hinduism?

 

I've never read them.

 

why not? when you developed a renewed interest in religion in adulthood (I know you were indoctrinated as a child, and for that I'm sorry), wouldn't it have been sound and careful practice to shop around a little? would you buy the first car you saw, without unbiased comparison to any others? the first house? if you wouldn't do that with relatively unimportant material things, why the hell would you do it with something as important as your mortal soul?

 

According to the Bible, hell is just as real as heaven. The Bible clearly and explicitly teaches that hell is a real place to which the wicked/unbelieving are sent after death.

Praise God that, through Jesus, we can escape this eternal fate.

We read in Scripture:

16 &#8220;For this is how God loved the world: He gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life. 17 God sent his Son into the world not to judge the world, but to save the world through him.
18 &#8220;There is no judgment against anyone who believes in him. But anyone who does not believe in him has already been judged for not believing in God&#8217;s one and only Son. 19 And the judgment is based on this fact: God&#8217;s light came into the world, but people loved the darkness more than the light, for their actions were evil. 20 All who do evil hate the light and refuse to go near it for fear their sins will be exposed. 21 But those who do what is right come to the light so others can see that they are doing what God wants.&#8221;---John 3:16-21 NLT

 

I understand Him because I have read what He has to say to us through His best selling book of all time the Holy Bible but I'm not saying I fully understand Him. None of us can fully understand God because of His infinite wisdom while we mere mortals have finite wisdom. Furthermore I believe everything He has told us in Scripture. So I just don't understand how it's laughable and absurd in your perspective.

I never said you made such a claim and besides how could you make such a claim when you don't even believe He exist?

Well yes, humans that God created were evil and are still evil, I mean all of us are sinners except babies and children not of culpable/accountable age but you're twisting/spinning it by interpreting it to mean that God purposely created us to be evil. No, He didn't create us to be evil, it was our own free will decisions/choices to do what is evil in the eyes of Almighty God!

God is omniscient meaning that He knows everything...past...present...future. And so yes, God knew humans were going to turn evil given that He gives everyone the free will to do it, but even though He knew it doesn't mean He is the author of evil.
He hates all evil but He allows it to happen because He gives us free will.

What don't you understand about free will? Do you think you have no free will to make your own decisions/choices?
If you say you have no free will then tell us who is pulling your strings to make decisions/choices for you?

 

If god knows every decision before it's made, there is no such thing as free will

 

It is not according to the bible.

Unfortunately, many people who do not understand the bible say the same things you say.

a) The bible says God is love. (1 John 4:8 )

So, what does that mean? Well, the bible goes into insane detail on what that means. It explains who God is and what his personality traits are. Here is who God is:

1) God doesn't lie - Titus 1:2
2) *God will not accuse someone forever* - Psalms 103:9 & Isaiah 57:16
3) *God will not harbor his anger forever* - Psalms 103:9 & Isaiah 57:16 & Psalms 30:5
4) God is merciful - Deut 4:31
5) God is loving - John 4:8
6) God is peaceful - Heb 13:20
7) God loves his enemies - Luke 6:35 & 1 Cor 13
8 ) God is kind to those who are unthankful and evil - Luke 6:35
9) *God does not cast people off forever* - Lam 3:31
10) *God does not keep a record of the wrong any one did forever* - 1 Corn 13:5
11) God is love - 1 John 4:8 & 1 Cor 13
12) God is kind - 1 John 4:8 & 1 Cor 13
13) God is patient - 1 John 4:8 & 1 Cor 13
14) God does not envy - 1 John 4:8 & 1 Cor 13
15) God does not boast - 1 John 4:8 & 1 Cor 13
16) God is not self seeking - 1 John 4:8 & 1 Cor 13
17) God is not prideful - 1 John 4:8 & 1 Cor 13
18 ) God is not easily angered - 1 John 4:8 & 1 Cor 13
19) God will never fail in anything he attempts to do - 1 John 4:8 & 1 Cor 13
20) God is compassionate - 1 John 4:8 & 1 Cor 13
21) God is gentle (to be considerate and kindly in disposition, not harsh or severe and easily managed or handled.) - 1 John 4:8 & 1 Cor 13

b) Hell doesn't exist. The concept of a hell is a paganistic belief that was introduced to Christianity through the Latin Catholic Vulgate. "Hell" was translated to the KJV bible from the word "infernus" from the Vulgate. Sheol, Hades, Gehenna and Tartarus were all loosely mistranslated to hell. Notice, that in modern bibles, the word "hell" doesn't exist anywhere in the old testament. If the Jews don't believe in hell, then why should you? After all, Christians and Jews worship the same God. The same God of Abraham, Moses and Elijah. Our Old Testament is the same as their Torah; word for word. The Jews are God's people, yet they are not taught hell. If hell was real, wouldn't you think the Jews would be the first people to know?

If you honestly think hell exists, then you do not know God. If hell existed, then parts 2, 3, 7, 8, 9 and 10 would all be lies. if the Word is God (John 1:1), and God isn't a man that he should lie (Numbers 23:19), then obviously all the parts I listed are NOT lies. Therefore, hell doesn't exist.

 

The Torah is not the Old Testament.

The Tanakh (OT) is divided into 3 parts.

1. The Torah - Teachings (in Hebrew) - the Law (in English) The Torah is the first 5 books.
2. Nevi-im - Prophets (in Hebrew) - History (in English)
3. Ketuvim - writings (in Hebrew) - poetry (English)

 

Please keep your comments civil and within the forum rules. Do discuss the topic and refrain from making your posts personal. Any member violating the forum rules will be removed from the thread from hereon out.

Shangrila
Moderator

 

It is fallacy to claim that you have read what God has to say from reading some holy book written by man. The bottom line, and you know this as well as I, is that we have no way of knowing if the words in some holy book come from God.

There are all kinds of holy books. Do you claim that each represents God's word ?

Listen to yourself. If all humans are evil as you admit, how is it that God did not know that his creation would be evil. (God does not make an exception for Babies in the passage I quoted)

Do you think God is stupid or at minimum is completely ignorant of the nature of what he created ? Did God not know that most if not all humans would choose evil because "all humans are evil " ?

I never said we have no free will. This is a flawed argument in any case because you are comparing "Reality" to what the Bible says "a story/allegory".

Clearly the Bible story we are talking about was not meant to be taken literally because it makes no sense. It is allegory. It is a story that is trying to get across a message.

 

Why must you always post falsehoods about someone before you give your opinion.
He has told you over and over and over, many, many, times he is a believer. Just doesn't believe your made up garbage. But actually what is written in scripture without the blasphemy of man made religious dogma.

 

It's a contradiction to claim we are not chimps or apes then claim but we are of the same family/group.

If we are not chimps or apes then it stands to reason we cannot be of the same family/group...sounds logical to me.

 

Did you know what you're stating is just a theory/speculation? You can't even describe who this very distant ancestor was...looked like...what it ate...etc. but you dare to tell us these 3 different living species have the same very distant ancestor.

 

Why are you asking me the question "how is it that God did not know that his creation would be evil?

I mean I have already posted that God knew His creation would turn evil. Don't you read everything someone says when they respond to you? From the looks of things it appears so. Anyway below is what I said in a previous post in response to your post.

 

If God knew that what he was creating was (or would turn evil) then God is the Author of evil.

If God created something that he knew would turn evil, then God is the author of evil.

God created something that was evil Genesis 6 "Every inclination of the thoughts of their minds was only evil all the time"

You have stated that God knew that humans would be evil prior to their creation.

Why did God create something that he knew would be evil ? Why did God created this evil human ?

You claim "free will" but God already knew what the choice of humans would be. God created a being that he knew would choose evil.

God is the Author of Evil and there is no way around it if you go by what the Bible says.

 

Dog, fox, coyote.

All 3 from the same family. All 3 different species.

 

Please yourself.


If it is in the nature of man to sin, and god created man, god must have created evil.

 

I think it's a little more complicated than that.

Satan didn't come from man's free will.

 

Again, there is at least one complexity here.

The Bible says Noah and God debated the future of mankind - God having decided to wipe out mankind with a giant flood. But, Noah prevailed in arguing that man still deserved a chance, and that he should build an ark to preserve a small contingent of humans that weren't so far gone that redemption was impossible.

That suggests that God changed his mind. That seems like a strange thing to have happen when God knew both Noah's argument and the future of all earthly beings.

 

Sorry but the Bible says nothing of God debating with Noah concerning the future of mankind. For there is no where in Scripture that depicts God and Noah debating the future of mankind. And so obviously you are making something up.

But if you insist you are right then show us where in Scripture do we read about God and Noah debating the future of mankind. If you can't show us then we can conclude you have made it up, you are exaggerating, you are speculating and have no biblical support to back what you're saying.

The only thing I see suggested here is your failed attempt to make a point when there is absolutely no point in making because of something made up by you.

 

I just don't know how anyone could believe the stories written in the Bible. Obviously they were written by ancient people who were trying to explain things they didn't yet understand. I mean, seriously, a lot of the stories are utterly ridiculous.

Every natural event is described as a "plague" of some sort because the people didn't please God. I just can't get past the idea that these stories are more than likely made up.