Part 31 of Post Your Tough Questions Regarding Christianity>>MOD WARNING<<

It totally say that you're going to hell for not believing. It says that even most believers will go to hell for not believing.

 

No that's not the answer, the answer is that's the way God created it to be. Penguins hunt for their food in the sea, they use their wings to propel themselves while they're under water hunting for their prey. So their wings are more suited for swimming than flying but you could say they use their wings to "fly" through the water.

I hope you're not suggesting that someday penguins will be able to fly in the air after they shed some fat from their bodies...lol

Nobody has accused you evolutionists in claiming that organisms are evolving to become more human-like. But we reject the idea, the claim you make in saying that humans and apes shared a common ancestor.

Again if what you claim is true then once again why hasn't the apes kept up with us (humans) in this advancement? They also have had thousands of years to advance...why haven't they advanced on the scale that we humans have advanced? Why are they still using sticks for tools?

The answer is we have never shared a common ancestor with them. When God created, He created all the different kinds of living beings...fish, birds, wild animals etc. then He created us human beings, in His image He created us, He created us to reign over all His other living creations.

We read in Scripture:

Then God said, &#8220;Let us make human beings in our image, to be like us. They will reign over the fish in the sea, the birds in the sky, the livestock, all the wild animals on the earth, and the small animals that scurry along the ground.&#8221;

So God created human beings in his own image.
In the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.

Then God blessed them and said, &#8220;Be fruitful and multiply. Fill the earth and govern it. Reign over the fish in the sea, the birds in the sky, and all the animals that scurry along the ground.&#8221;---Genesis 1:26-28 NLT

Nobody suggested that everything on the planet is evolving to become a human one day in the future, so why do you bring up everything? The only thing in question right now is the theory that humans and apes shared a common ancestor. And nobody till this day have proven anything about this common ancestor...where is this elusive common ancestor?...the answer is it is no where to be found because it's a myth!

Well I must admit I don't agree with everything he says like for example he said there was a world-wide cannibalism of eating babies going on prior to the Great Flood of Noah.

There is no biblical support for that but still since God saw how wicked and evil mankind had become there must have been some of that going on, I mean that activity is definitely wicked and evil but I wouldn't go so far as to say what WanRen had said in that all the babies were eaten. Again there is no biblical support for that, God did not specifically tell us that.

But the one thing for sure WanRen and myself have in common is that we believe Jesus Christ is our Lord Savior!...amen to that bruthaaa!

 

Mitt quote

Rather like Adam and Eve then.

The other thing you have in common is your lack of understanding scripture or genetics. Amen to that ...

 

I literally just answered this. You are mistaken in your assumption that apes should be becoming more human like. This is why I said evolutionists are not saying organisms are evolving to become more human-like. It's because that isn't the goal of evolution. That's why we aren't saying it.

 

Well yes I claimed it was an idiom in biblical languages (Hebrew & Greek) and yes I didn't give a thorough detailed explanation on why it's considered an idiom in the post I made on pg. 1 #4 of Part 9.

I said no such thing about me being well versed with Hebrew. Obviously it's the same old story... a misinterpretation of what one reads, in other words you misinterpreted what I said. Below is part of what I said on that post that was made on pg. 1 #4 of Part 9.

I don't see anywhere in what I posted above proclaiming that I specifically said I am well versed with Hebrew...do you?...I guess you do since you interpreted what I said to mean I was referring to myself but obviously you were mistaken in your interpretation.

Well sure if that is what you want. But of course I won't be surprised if you reject the explanation...it's the same old story with unbelievers...lol

Below is a person who is knowledgeable with biblical figures of speech. His name is E.W. Bullinger...maybe you want to look him up and do more research on him. Oh and you can look up James MacKnight also.

In his copious work on biblical figures of speech, E.W. Bullinger listed several ways that the Hebrew and Greek languages used verbs to mean something other than their strict, literal usage. He listed several verses that show that the languages &#8220;used active verbs to express the agent&#8217;s design or attempt to do anything, even though the thing was not actually done&#8221; (1898, p. 821). To illustrate, in discussing the Israelites, Deuteronomy 28:68 states: &#8220;Ye shall be sold (i.e., put up for sale) unto your enemies&#8230;and no man shall buy you.&#8221; The translators of the New King James Version recognized the idiom and rendered the verse, &#8220;you shall be offered for sale.&#8221; The text clearly indicated that they would not be sold, because there would be no buyer, yet the Hebrew active verb for &#8220;sold&#8221; was used.

In the New Testament, a clear example of this type of usage is found in 1 John 1:10, which states, &#8220;If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him [God&#8212;KB/DM] a liar.&#8221; No one can make God a liar, but the attempt to deny sin is the equivalent of attempting to make God a liar, which is rendered with an active verb as if it actually happened. Verbs, therefore, can have idiomatic usages that may convey something other than a strict, literal meaning.

With that in mind, Bullinger&#8217;s fourth list of idiomatic verbs deals with active verbs that &#8220;were used by the Hebrews to express, not the doing of the thing, but the permission of the thing which the agent is said to do&#8221; (p. 823, emp. in orig.). To illustrate, in commenting on Exodus 4:21, Bullinger stated: &#8220; &#8216;I will harden his heart (i.e., I will permit or suffer his heart to be hardened), that he shall not let the people go.&#8217; So in all the passages which speak of the hardening of Pharaoh&#8217;s heart. As is clear from the common use of the same Idiom in the following passages&#8221; (1968, p. 823). He then listed Jeremiah 4:10, &#8220; &#8216;Lord God, surely thou hast greatly deceived this people&#8217;: i.e., thou hast suffered this People to be greatly deceived, by the false prophets&#8230;.&#8217; &#8221; Ezekiel 14:9 is also given as an example of this type of usage: &#8220; &#8216;If the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have deceived that prophet&#8217;: i.e., I have permitted him to deceive himself.&#8221;

James MacKnight, in a lengthy section on biblical idioms, agrees with Bullinger&#8217;s assessment that in Hebrew active verbs can express permission and not direct action.

This explanation unquestionably clarifies the question of God hardening Pharaoh&#8217;s heart. When the text says that God hardened Pharaoh&#8217;s heart, it means that God would permit or allow Pharaoh&#8217;s heart to be hardened.

http://www.apologeticspress.org/apcontent.aspx?category=11&article=1205

 

No.. there is a difference.. God hardened the Pharaoh's heart is active not passive. God didn't ALLOW pharaoh's heart to be hardened.

 

Yes it is. Did you really think in God's Holy Bible He is going to tell us that everyone's lives are meaningless? If that is your interpretation you definitely have some issues comprehending correctly what you read.

The message He conveyed over to us in that book was to tell us for those who do not have Him in their lives their lives are meaningless but for those who have Him in their lives their lives are meaningful.

I'm sure you have heard atheists claim that life is meaningless...haven't you?

They have no real purpose, atheists say we are born, we live, we die then we become bug food and enter into a world of no consciousness, into a world of non-existence. (with that perspective life is indeed meaningless)

This is a statement I have heard coming from atheists, it is not my statement but theirs.

But we believers, we Christians have a purpose for living our lives, our lives are meaningful. We live our lives to glorify our Creator, Almighty God!

And someday we will live in paradise with Him, in His Kingdom of Heaven and live happily ever after for all eternity!

We read in Scripture:

"For this is how God loved the world: He gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life."---John 3:16 NLT

 

You and Qchan are the only 2 I've ever seen or heard say anyone's life is meaningless.

BTW - living and dying isn't meaningless. Unless you waste the life while alive doing things that have no meaning in one's own life or the others around them.

 

It says what it says Mitt. I know you can not handle this truth as evidenced by your desperate appeal to John 3:16 which has zero do to with Ecclesiastes.

 

It's as laughable as deluvial flood geology. The physics of the vapor canopy are such that people would have been squashed flatter than a penny before the rain started.

- - - Updated - - -

He has gone to the football game signs to prove god now? ROFLMAO.

 

Essentially, they are trying to say that if you don't have religion in your life, you have nothing to live for, I think. Personally, I think it's those with nothing to live for who turn to religion, in a lot of instances.

 

Fact is humans are not monkeys, orangutan, chimps, fish, birds, bees etc. each and every creature this include humans has been proven by scientist classified according to be species or creatures of their own kind. It is also a fact that all those creatures share some commonality they are they all breath, they all eat, they have a eyes or form of vision, they all have brains, form of feet, intestines, blood, cells etc. but most of all it has been proven that birds can not communicate with ants, lions can not communicate with snakes etc. etc. humans are the most unique only us humans have the ability of intelligence to create, invent, communicate, hate, and expand civilization and this universe. God has made every creatures according to their own kind just like what scientist are have and leaning now.

 

That God defacto exists and "I know the character of this God" because "the Bible says so" is what is implied.

This "character of God" is then put into nice neatly wrapped gift box and sold like some kind of fancy bag full of goodies one might get at xmas.

The problem with "the Bible says so" is when "the Bible Doesn't say that". The adherent then is put in a quandary.

You then start getting rationalizations such as "it couldn't say that". "do you really think Gods holy Bible would tell us that everything is meaningless".

Well it told us all kinds of things that are not in the adherents pretty little box. In the box is credo's such as "Children are not to be punished for the sins of their parents" which is in the book and the box.

Then we have instances when God commands the Israelites to kill whole towns, including women children and babies. In some cases God says that as punishment "Children will be killed in front of their own parents". This does not make it into the box and in fact "cant" be in the box because it conflicts with other items in the box.

 

Ecclesiastes a very excellent poetic expression of man's desire to gain knowledge and wisdom to be equal to God only to be limited because man are not and can not be God they can be like God by using their God given talents of wisdom in making this world a better place to use their talents not for selfish gain this is what Ecclesiastes is all about.

And when man can not be God they get frustrated and they will start to hate and self proclaim themselves to be gods. Yes it is meaningless because only God is God man are man be what you are and live according to God's will not man's.

Live prosperously and not for oneself only.

And this is the reason why good leaders, elders, parents and guardians must teach their children so that it will never be forgotten. The very reason why God instructed Moses to record everything down so that man will not forget.

You have read it and for you your understanding is that life is useless and meaningless
We have also read it and our understanding is that life is not meaningless but it is about being fruitful and that everything comes or started from God and by being fruitful we will in the end be with God.

 

This was my original response to your post but I wanted to add something.

You say "we Christians will be living in paradise" and so on as if you know this is a fact" It is fine that you believe this but, it has nothing to do with Ecclesiastes as Christians simply did not exist.

It is like if we were having a discussion about how some ancient person made it from one city to some far distant city and asking why he did not take an airplane when airplanes do not exist.

There is no certainty of paradise in the afterlife. Such a thing does not exist in for the writer of Ecclesiastes.

All this person knows for sure is that he comes from dust and will go back to dust. We just do not know whether or not we go up or down is the message.

I realize this is a message that you can not accept (and for sure it is a difficult message - uncertainty is a scary thing) but, this is the message of Ecclesiastes whether or not you like it.

You say, " do you really think God wanted us to be uncertain about the afterlife". This has nothing to do with what I think. This is about what the Bible says.

Your only response left is denial. Your interpretation is wrong. OK then tell me how else you interpret this passage?

By this passage I mean "This Passage" and not John 3:16 or a passage from some other time period by another author 1000 years later.

 

You start out fine:

Ecclesiastes is about seeking wisdom, and does make a case that this is a good and intelligent decision.

Then you go off the farm.

Where does it say that mans desire for knowledge and wisdom comes from a desire to be equal to God ?

 

I can't believe that there are people who deny intelligent design in favor of evolution. It's like saying that water is not perfectly designed to fit in a puddle.

With that said, no...evolution is not real...it's a myth!

 

Not true...that is just your unsubstantiated opinion.

 

All Bible scholars agree that Moses didn't write the Pentateuch. Too many different styles ... to many contradictions and double stories cobbled together.

Two creation stories in Genesis.
&#9702;Two descriptions of the Abrahamic covenant.
&#9702;Two stories of the naming of Isaac.
&#9702;Two instances where Abraham deceived a king by introducing his wife Sarah as his sister.
&#9702;Two stories of Jacob traveling to Mesopotamia
&#9702;Two stories of a revelation at Beth-el to Jacob.
&#9702;Two accounts of God changing Jacob's name to Israel
&#9702;Two instances where Moses extracted water from two different rocks at two different locations called Meribah.

 

Exactly Inc! Thanx for your contributions!

 

Sorry but again not true that "all Bible scholars agree....."

The Pentateuch is the first five books of the Bible that conservative Bible scholars believe were mostly written by Moses. Even though the books of the Pentateuch themselves do not clearly identify the author, there are many passages that attribute them to Moses or as being his words (Exodus 17:14, 24:4&#8211;7;Numbers 33:1&#8211;2; Deuteronomy 31:9&#8211;22). While there are some verses in the Pentateuch that would appear to have been added by someone later than Moses, for example, Deuteronomy 34:5&#8211;8, which describes the death and burial of Moses, most if not all scholars attribute the majority of these books to Moses. Even if Joshua or someone else actually wrote the original manuscripts, the teaching and revelation can be traced from God through Moses.

http://www.gotquestions.org/Pentateuch.html

 

No! That argument is mine. What does 'fact' mean? Fact means "something believed to be true or real." See www.tfd.com/fact definition 2.c. Now. Do you believe what the scientists have to say about evolution? Do you believe evolution to be true or real? Then to YOU, it is a fact... but not necessarily a 'fact' to those who do not hold such a belief.

 

FACT is based on consensus of opinion revolving around proven data within professional communities of learned individuals. What you are taking about and express on a regular basis here is called personal opinion....and most here already know what it is.

 

No where in Ecclesiastes said anything about that this poem is not about life, wisdom or God. The poem clearly is about an individual who felt so much frustration and limitation in his / her wisdom and knowledge about life.

Taking this poem and applying to our scientific world many individuals, great scientist, inventors, philosophers, world leaders, dictators, tyrants in spite of their great discoveries, success, riches, and extremism still felt unsatisfied, unhappy, discontented, and uninsured of themselves.

 

And those learned individuals classified or separate what is fact and theory. Example: Decades ago the God-particle was just a theory now it is a fact after its confirm discoveries.

Evolution to a certain point is still consider theory and in some limited discoveries consider fact.
What is the theory in evolution is that man evolved from apes.
What is the fact is that man and apes are two and distinct creatures of their own kind.