Part 34 of Post Your Tough Questions Regarding Christianity

That sounds like something those demons were saying to the people they infested before they were cast into the pigs.

 

"Demons" is an oldfashioned word and should be replaced by something like "spiritual parasites" which seek to lodge in human brains and bend the will of their victim to their own.
They go around looking for empty nonchristian skulls to squat in-
Jesus said- "..When it arrives, it finds the house unoccupied, swept clean and put in order. Then it goes and takes with it seven other spirits more wicked than itself, and they go in and live there" (Matt 12:43-45)

But if you get God and Jesus in your heads to act as bouncers they'll say "Oppit!" to anything nasty trying to get in..

 

That's the old "Sure, I killed 100,000 people and burned down their town but that wasn't the real me. It was all of those strange creatures in my head. I'm really a nice guy and would never had done any of those things if it hadn't been for them" excuse.

 

No true Christian has ever said anything like that..
PS- Demons will probe human minds looking for weaknesses they can exploit; they even have a go at Christians, but Christians can sense when they're being probed and shut them out..
Spock- "We're being probed captain, source and origin unknown"
Kirk- "Shields up, red alert!"

 

Yes, you are wrong. It's rather obvious you didn't do any research but yet you make a statement believing you are right. Below is a thorough explanation. After reading it go and research the names of the people mentioned yourself if you're still skeptical of what is presented.

Question: "Did Jesus really exist? Is there any historical evidence of Jesus Christ?"

Answer: Typically, when this question is asked, the person asking qualifies the question with “outside of the Bible.” We do not grant this idea that the Bible cannot be considered a source of evidence for the existence of Jesus. The New Testament contains hundreds of references to Jesus Christ. There are those who date the writing of the Gospels to the second century A.D., more than 100 years after Jesus' death. Even if this were the case (which we strongly dispute), in terms of ancient evidences, writings less than 200 years after events took place are considered very reliable evidences. Further, the vast majority of scholars (Christian and non-Christian) will grant that the Epistles of Paul (at least some of them) were in fact written by Paul in the middle of the first century A.D., less than 40 years after Jesus' death. In terms of ancient manuscript evidence, this is extraordinarily strong proof of the existence of a man named Jesus in Israel in the early first century A.D.

It is also important to recognize that in A.D. 70, the Romans invaded and destroyed Jerusalem and most of Israel, slaughtering its inhabitants. Entire cities were literally burned to the ground. We should not be surprised, then, if much evidence of Jesus' existence was destroyed. Many of the eyewitnesses of Jesus would have been killed. These facts likely limited the amount of surviving eyewitness testimony of Jesus.

Considering that Jesus' ministry was largely confined to a relatively unimportant area in a small corner of the Roman Empire, a surprising amount of information about Jesus can be drawn from secular historical sources. Some of the more important historical evidences of Jesus include the following:

The first-century Roman Tacitus, who is considered one of the more accurate historians of the ancient world, mentioned superstitious “Christians” (from Christus, which is Latin for Christ), who suffered under Pontius Pilate during the reign of Tiberius. Suetonius, chief secretary to Emperor Hadrian, wrote that there was a man named Chrestus (or Christ) who lived during the first century (Annals 15.44).

Flavius Josephus is the most famous Jewish historian. In his Antiquities he refers to James, “the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ.” There is a controversial verse (18:3) that says, “Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man. For he was one who wrought surprising feats....He was [the] Christ...he appeared to them alive again the third day, as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him.” One version reads, “At this time there was a wise man named Jesus. His conduct was good and [he] was known to be virtuous. And many people from among the Jews and the other nations became his disciples. Pilate condemned him to be crucified and to die. But those who became his disciples did not abandon his discipleship. They reported that he had appeared to them three days after his crucifixion, and that he was alive; accordingly he was perhaps the Messiah, concerning whom the prophets have recounted wonders.”

Julius Africanus quotes the historian Thallus in a discussion of the darkness which followed the crucifixion of Christ (Extant Writings, 18 ).

Pliny the Younger, in Letters 10:96, recorded early Christian worship practices including the fact that Christians worshiped Jesus as God and were very ethical, and he includes a reference to the love feast and Lord’s Supper.

The Babylonian Talmud (Sanhedrin 43a) confirms Jesus' crucifixion on the eve of Passover and the accusations against Christ of practicing sorcery and encouraging Jewish apostasy.

Lucian of Samosata was a second-century Greek writer who admits that Jesus was worshiped by Christians, introduced new teachings, and was crucified for them. He said that Jesus' teachings included the brotherhood of believers, the importance of conversion, and the importance of denying other gods. Christians lived according to Jesus’ laws, believed themselves to be immortal, and were characterized by contempt for death, voluntary self-devotion, and renunciation of material goods.

Mara Bar-Serapion confirms that Jesus was thought to be a wise and virtuous man, was considered by many to be the king of Israel, was put to death by the Jews, and lived on in the teachings of His followers.

Then we have all the Gnostic writings (The Gospel of Truth, The Apocryphon of John, The Gospel of Thomas, The Treatise on Resurrection, etc.) that all mention Jesus.

In fact, we can almost reconstruct the gospel just from early non-Christian sources: Jesus was called the Christ (Josephus), did “magic,” led Israel into new teachings, and was hanged on Passover for them (Babylonian Talmud) in Judea (Tacitus), but claimed to be God and would return (Eliezar), which his followers believed, worshipping Him as God (Pliny the Younger).

There is overwhelming evidence for the existence of Jesus Christ, both in secular and biblical history. Perhaps the greatest evidence that Jesus did exist is the fact that literally thousands of Christians in the first century A.D., including the twelve apostles, were willing to give their lives as martyrs for Jesus Christ. People will die for what they believe to be true, but no one will die for what they know to be a lie.

https://www.gotquestions.org/did-Jesus-exist.html

 

Sorry, but Jesus was fair with light brown hair. As for His mother Mary, here is Our Lady of Jerusalem, it's an actual portrait:

 

Your kidding me right????

If you believe this is an actual portrait then I have some swamp land in Florida to sell you!!

AA

 

And I can sell Jeanette Buckingham Palace for $50.

 

Everyone knows Jesus looks like this: http://www.thebricktestament.com/re..._tiny_mediterranean_island/rv01_12-13p16.html

 

Instead of just copying pasting from a jesus website, why not provide some of your own words with support from actual first hand historical references.

Julius Africanus quotes the historian Thallus in a discussion of the darkness which followed the crucifixion of Christ (Extant Writings, 18 ).​

This is akin to "I heard it from a friend who heard it from a friend". It is not first hand evidence. Googling "Extant Writings, 18" just brings up a bunch of jesus websites like CARM and worthychristianlibrary.com

Lucian of Samosata was a second-century Greek writer ​

A second-century writing is just more of "I heard it from a friend who heard it from a friend". It is not first hand evidence.

Mara Bar-Serapion confirms that Jesus was thought to be a wise and virtuous man, was considered by many to be the king of Israel, was put to death by the Jews, and lived on in the teachings of His followers.​

Who is Mara Bar-Serapion? Where are his actual writings? "was thought to be" clearly shows his comments are not based on first hand knowledge.

Is this really the best you can do to answer "Tough Questions Regarding Christianity"?


You have failed to provide any evidence for the actual existence of a son of a god - jesus.

 

All we have is the probability that a Jewish preacher called Jesus existed.

GotQuestions is not a reliable source.

Not true. Many cities and towns were spared by offering no resistance. True that some were destroyed. After Jerusalem the leaders of Israel and the 'elite' were executed or sold into Egypt. Most ordinary people were left where they were. The quote above is applicable to the rebellion in 130 BCE where Palestine was devastated and the Diaspora - started in 650 BCE by the Babylonians - was complete.

.

Was Jesus crucified on the eve of a Passover Shabbat or the weekly Shabbat? According to the differing stories in the Gospels it was both. No-one knows.

 

What is a jesus website? You must mean a Christian website...don't you? What's the difference on how you receive the response I give you. So what if the answer came straight from my favorite Christian website.

Your response is hilarious. What do you want? Do you want me to present you with videos of what happened over 2,000 years ago?...lol

Denials...denials.

You got all these questions, I already gave you a head start...why don't you do some research on your own. Why come here and ask questions and then when I present a thorough explanation through my favorite Christian website you shrug everything off in denial?

I gave you names of people that are outside of the Bible that are recorded in history attesting to the existence and crucifixion of our Lord Savior Jesus Christ which is what you wanted, and now you are acting typically as non-believers do...you are in denial of what is presented to you so why did you bother to ask? You can keep denying the truth for only so long then oneday your denials will run out and then it will be too late for you when the truth stares at you straight in the face.

And no I have not failed it's just that you are stubbornly in denial of the truth. Don't make the grave mistake of being in denial your entire life here on earth.

We read in Scripture:

The Final Judgment

Our Lord Savior Jesus Christ said, “But when the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit upon his glorious throne. All the nations will be gathered in his presence, and he will separate the people as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will place the sheep at his right hand and the goats at his left.

“Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the creation of the world. For I was hungry, and you fed me. I was thirsty, and you gave me a drink. I was a stranger, and you invited me into your home. I was naked, and you gave me clothing. I was sick, and you cared for me. I was in prison, and you visited me.’

“Then these righteous ones will reply, ‘Lord, when did we ever see you hungry and feed you? Or thirsty and give you something to drink? Or a stranger and show you hospitality? Or naked and give you clothing? When did we ever see you sick or in prison and visit you?’

“And the King will say, ‘I tell you the truth, when you did it to one of the least of these my brothers and sisters, you were doing it to me!’
“Then the King will turn to those on the left and say, ‘Away with you, you cursed ones, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his demons. For I was hungry, and you didn’t feed me. I was thirsty, and you didn’t give me a drink. I was a stranger, and you didn’t invite me into your home. I was naked, and you didn’t give me clothing. I was sick and in prison, and you didn’t visit me.’

“Then they will reply, ‘Lord, when did we ever see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and not help you?’
“And he will answer, ‘I tell you the truth, when you refused to help the least of these my brothers and sisters, you were refusing to help me.’
“And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous will go into eternal life.”---Matthew 25:31-46 NLT

 

YOU are the one who started this thread. YOU should be able to provide answers and provide supporting evidence. You do neither.

No. I expect you to address the issue. I asked you to respond in your own words to:
What is "Extant Writings, 18"?
Where did it come from, who wrote it?
How was it discovered?

Perhaps you didn't answer because there is no reference to any "Extant Writings, 18" outside of your religious sites.

Yes. I will always deny that "I heard it from a friend who heard it from a friend" is first hand evidence of anything. Do you believe that Davy Crockett kilt him a bear when he was only three?

Again, YOU are the one who started this thread. Again, YOU should be able to provide answers and provide supporting evidence. I stated that was was no contemporaneous evidence (outside of religious circles) that attested to the existence of a jesus.

So far all you have done is cut and paste from religious websites. I have been aware of the information that is presented on those sites for a long time.They do nothing to provide contemporaneous evidence (outside of religious circles) that attested to the existence of a jesus. NOTHING.

Your copy and pasting them does no change the content.

Here is an example of your failings...I asked questions about Mara Bar-Serapion. You did not respond. So I did a little research. According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mara_bar_Serapion_on_Jesus...

Mara Bar-Serapion's letter is preserved in a 6th or 7th century manuscript (BL Add. 1465 held by the British Library, ...
​

Does this mean that all that exists is a copy of an alleged letter?

...and was composed sometime between 73 AD and the 3rd century.​

So, even if the original exists, it was probably not a contemporaneous account.

Nineteenth century records state that the manuscript containing this text was one of several manuscripts obtained by Henry Tattam from the monastery of St. Mary Deipara in the Nitrian Desert of Egypt and acquired by the Library in 1843​

So, it's in a manuscript obtained from a monastery.

Critics ... argue that unlike the references to Socrates and Pythagoras, bar Serapion does not explicitly mention Jesus by name, thereby rendering the actual identity of the "wise king" in the letter less than certain.
​

So, he knows and explicitly uses the names of Socrates and Pythagoras but offers only an ambiguous reference to a "wise king".

All in all, this does nothing to provide any evidence whatsoever regarding the existence of an actual jesus. What it does provide is an excellent example of the mind-stretching that people like you go through in order to try to maintain your beliefs.

Did you ever actually read even the excerpts provided by wikipedia? Perhaps you would like to take the time to read it and then present YOUR OWN comments about it and how/why you believe it provides evidence for jesus.




And then, when all else has failed, you resort to preaching...

 

Why do many Christians worship the bible?

 

1 Corinthians 9:22 Jesus said himself that was all things to all people, thus he looked how people wanted him to.

 

Jesus said no such thing in 1 Corinthians 9:22. That was Paul babbling about he conned the local yokels into believing his fairy tale.

Jesus' dialogue is restricted to the books of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John with a few words tossed in the book of Revelation.

 

Well we don't know if Jesus ever said any of it. All we really have is at best second party writings, I'd say firth or fifth party most likely.

 

We have a lot of Sherlock Holmes and Doctor Watson dialogue also. They didn't exist. But it's inaccurate to attribute their dialogue to Tarzan and the Lone Ranger.

 

Oookaaaay.

 

What do you mean Sherlock Holmes doesn't exist. A new series of his cases starts on UK Tv next month so he must exist.

 

No, it's a very good and accurate source. What's your evidence that it's poor?

 

You're wrong. There is no evidence for zeus and the others. They were created as myths.

The God of Abraham is real and you haven't been able to provide any evidence to the
contray except the usual nonsense that's been rehashed for decades and provides no
evidence.

I know of nobody who believes the Earth is flat.

 

Wrong. It was a word for word cut and paste from the site I gave you.

You're lack of biblical knowledge is outstanding. You can't support what you just posted.
At least try to show some knowledge of the subject instead of blurting unsupportable
nonsense.

Perhaps you'd do well to actually read the Bible instead of cutting and pasting what you
want to hear instead of what's actually said.

I'm glad to help you with your lack of knowledge. I'll be here to continue.

 

The God of Abraham was one evil ______ who didn't have any redeeming qualities. He is described more as a devil than a beneficient deity. If he is the only deity in the universe then we are all screwed.

 

Interesting, but what I 'quoted' actually came from notes I took from a book lent to me some years ago by someone (Bible student) who knew what I was studying. . I've studied this over years. This subject is not new and reasons don't change. I looked at your site but it wasn't the one I used to condense the book notes I used which were far longer. Would you prefer I use long explanations from notes - or condensed explanations.

Perhaps you should read and quote all I posted. I learnt from books. 50 years ago we had no Internet where things are seldom expanded on in any length. Using these sites gets things over in a concise way. It's only about 12 years that I've even had a computer.

I see you've ignored my latest post to you.

You have no lack of knowledge, unfortunately it's mainly wrong.

But there you go. All through this you have accept quotes taken clearly out of context to prove the divinty of Jesus. I'm agnostic. I don't care if you believe that Jesus is the Messiah. I do care that you believe it through misinterpretation of Scriptures. But that's not my problem.
Judaism itself is a mishmash of beliefs. Studying the Bible, history of the time and the culture of the time it's clear that it is merely a good book, with many good teachings. Comparing the Bible with known history and archaeology shows that much is merely stories. At the same time it proves other things are at least based on known events. It does not prove the divinity of the Jewish preacher. It doesn't prove the existence of the Patriarchs.
Studying the Pentateuch against earlier culture proves that it was compiled from health 'rules', family relationships, food regulations and general laws (criminal) that were already practised by cultures in the Middle East before the Jews were around, not by 'Jahweh'.

Believe what you want about me. It makes no odds. I know what I have learnt over the decades.

Try reading John Goldingays 'Approaches to Old Testament interpretation'. He's a Christian. He says there are two ways of interpreting the OT. The Jewish way of understanding their scriptures, and the Christian way of interpreting them is you are a Christian.. I could give you a concise exposition but you prefer it in length obviously.

Try this as well. https://biblicalstudies.org.uk/article_ot1_goldingay.html
He concludes that ' Matthew begins from the Christ event and interprets the Old Testament in the light of it; his interpretation has part of its justification in its faithfulness to God's revelation in Christ. Lindsey interprets the Old Testament in the light of the news paper, and it is doubtful whether this is as good a starting-point

This depends on whether you are a Christian or not

As I said before I've spent to many years studying to bother what you think.

Good luck.