Part 5 of Post Your Tough Questions Regarding Christianity

What did he just post? Anyone?

 

I'm not particularly interested in metaphorical interpretations of the Bible, anybody can make up anything about a particular passage and say that is what the verses truly mean. Ask Cupid Dave, he has concocted amazingly complex, and stupid, metaphors for most of the Bible.

...The Incas weren't even around until the 12th century AD, thousands of years after you said the Flood occurred I think you need to rethink what you're saying.

I'm kind of confused about what you're saying here. You're still disagreeing with your Bible if you're saying that it wasn't a Great Flood that caused the downfall of other civilizations, but was rather a whole bunch of different natural disasters. The Bible says a Great Flood happened, not volcanoes or earthquakes.

We have continuous histories of civilizations throughout the period when you say that the Great Flood happened or whatever the heck you believe happened. Why were these civilizations not destroyed? For example, we have historical accounts of the Egyptian civilization, if we start at the Old Kingdom, from around 3,000 BC to the modern day. No mention of a Great Flood and no destruction of their civilization.

 

He said about 4000 yrs ago OR 2300BC. You misread his post.

 

Then you no nothing of Islamic history.

The Constitution of Medina was only for Medina, not the entire world. You know how the American constitution only applies in America? Same thing.

Provide a source for your claims. I'm not doing your research for you.

You've been saying over and over again how the Byzantine empire wanted their territory back and THAT was the purpose of the Crusades. You're being quite inconsistent.

So, once again, did France represent Christianity, then?

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Ah, thanks for point that out!

 

Cradle of civilization
The earliest civilizations in history were established in the region now known as the Middle East around 3500 BC by the Sumerians, in Mesopotamia (Iraq), widely regarded as the cradle of civilization. The Sumerians and the Akkadians (later known as Babylonians and Assyrians) all flourished in this region.
"In the course of the fourth millennium B.C., city-states developed in southern Mesopotamia that were dominated by temples whose priests represented the cities' patron deities. The most prominent of the city-states was Sumer, which gave its language to the area and became the first great civilization of mankind. About 2340 B.C., Sargon the Great (c. 2360-2305 B.C.) united the city-states in the south and founded the Akkadian dynasty, the world's first empire." [1]
Soon after the Sumerian civilization began, the Nile River valley of ancient Egypt was unified under the Pharaohs in the 4th millennium BC, and civilization quickly spread through the Fertile Crescent to the west coast of the Mediterranean Sea and throughout the Levant. The Elamites, Hittites, Amorites, Phoenicians, Israelites and others later built important states in this region.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Middle_East

Where's the gap from 4000 yrs ago, or 2300BC

History

Knowledge of Elamite history remains largely fragmentary, reconstruction being based on mainly Mesopotamian (Sumerian, Akkadian, Assyrian and Babylonian) sources. The history of Elam is conventionally divided into three periods, spanning more than two millennia. The period before the first Elamite period is known as the proto-Elamite period:
Proto-Elamite: c. 3200 BC – 2700 BC (Proto-Elamite script in Susa)
Old Elamite period: c. 2700 BC – 1600 BC (earliest documents until the Eparti dynasty)
Middle Elamite period: c. 1500 BC – 1100 BC (Anzanite dynasty until the Babylonian invasion of Susa)
Neo-Elamite period: c. 1100 BC – 539 BC (characterized Assyrian and Median influence. 539 BC marks the beginning of the Achaemenid period)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elamites

There doesn't seem to be a gap even in the ME region.

 

We have continuous civilizations through the 2300-2100 BC period (Biblical date of the flood) in numerous places in the world.

South America, China, Egypt, Greece, Europe, Africa, and of course Mesopotamia.

An ancient Peruvian civilization (2600 BC) did not have writing as we know it but used a method called quipu (a complicated system of knotted chords) for record keeping. This civilization was not destroyed and were precursors to the Inca.

Mitt had earlier suggested that the Egyptian pyramids were built after the Biblical flood which we know is not true.

 

English please??

 

Because you want to understand the Bible your way not God's way. Even facts are not good enough for you because the simple fact is you are anti Bible.

I guess you have to cherry pick the Incas right, so do you know which Central American tribes were around during the Noah flood era in 2300 BC? And do you know what was happening climatically then? I guess you don't know either.

The Great Flood = natural disaster that destroy the earth. And I guess you will ask then the Bible should say natural disaster not great flood and this is where the metaphor or riddle solving comes in the ability of the human mind to understand the Words of God and if you just want to understand the Bible base on your own understanding then, yes great flood that hit the planet earth during Noah's flood.

EGyptian civilization that started in 3000 BC and in 2300 the Noah's flood occur and it was during that era that Egyptians started to build great pyramids to worship their gods to pray for mercy and divine protection from natural calamities.

 

And you know nothing of Christian and world history.

It was for Medina then you are contradicting your own link that it was to appease the Christians and Jews it was them that the Medina constitution was meant for freedom of religion, freedom of etc. freedom that never was implemented instead the Jews and Christians got slaughter and wiped out.

Why, are you afraid of the truth??

Your attempt to distort is not working it is clear the Byzantine were interested in the recovery of their territories while the Crusade were more interested in securing the Holy Land.

After Charles Martel defeated the Muslims, France became the protector and defender not the sole representative of Christianity.

You are most welcome

 

So technically you are saying that for almost 4000-2000 years the world was very stable no flooding, no earthquakes, no typhoons, no sand storms, no tidal waves, no volcanic eruption, very fruitful, empires propser with wars fought without killing each other, etc. etc. that sounds like a perfect world??? Going to your standard if it is your standard please provide prood that it was a perfect world???

 

Says the guy that apparently thought the Incan Empire existed 3,000 years before it actually did.

No, they did not. Provide any sort of evidence that this occurred.

I'm not afraid of the truth. I've looked up the subject and I see no evidence that Mohammad annihilated Jewish and Christian communities because of their religion. YOU need to provide evidence for your claims like I have.

If the Crusaders were attempting to help the Byzantine Empire, why did they not retain the former Byzantium territories? Why did they keep the areas for themselves?

But you're saying that every single Muslim nation was representative of Islam. Why are the Christian nations not representative for their religion?

 

Just because those societies existed does not mean natural disasters did not happen. However, an earthquake is not nearly as dangerous in a society where every building that isn't a temple or fortress is a 1-story mud and wood structure.

 

No, I am just not interested in arguing against metaphors because it would be impossible. Anybody can make up metaphors for what the Biblical verses really mean.

Of course I am, you mentioned a people that didn't even exist until thousands of years later.

Can you provide any evidence that Noah's Flood should be taken as a metaphor for natural calamities in general? It seems that you want it to be a metaphor because otherwise it would be flat out wrong.

Where do you get that idea from? You're just making things up now. Do you have ANY proof that the Pyramids were built to ward off natural disasters?

 

Clearly the metaphor is that religion is bogus and insane.

 

This should read "why did they not give back the former Byzantine territories?"

 

And you believe that the Crusade was not due to Muslim aggression.

I already did provided you proof Jewish and Christian villages were wipe out after that Muslim armies attack Byzantine empire in fact Mohammed will be assassinated by a Jewish girl whose family and village was wipe out by Mohammed.

You refuse any sources and only want your bias sources or personal opinion, ok here I will give you one sources read for your self
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banu_Qurayza
http://www.bibleprobe.com/muhammad.htm
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1952999/posts

The Crusaders were only interested in the Holy Land mainly Jerusalem.

Yes every Muslim nations claim to represent Islam. Christian nation do not because at that time there was only Catholic West and Orthodox East. Now, former Christian nations are secular while Muslims continue to retain their claims that they are true representative of Islam.

 

You mean an earthquake measuring 8 or 9 is not as dangerous as a flood??? Are you aware the chain reaction of a massive earthquake? Tidal waves or tsunami that can flood and wipe out entire villages, land slide, and the earth opens up taking down mud and wood structure with it.

 

That is why the Bible require careful reading just like scientist have to spend countless hours researching and discovering new materials. Are you a scientist? Are you a Theologian-scientist?

Just like you cherry pick everything but that is fine, the Incas are use to demonstrate that they practice all kinds of barbarism their world was not a peaceful one and it reflects thousands of years before the Incas what was their region must have been like, but you don't want that you want exact answers then I ask you give me an exact answer that no flood or any natural disaster occur during the Noah flood, what was the condition in Europe, Africa, Asia, America and the Pacific on that exact date???

The Noah flood can be presented both.
Coded messages practice for security purposes by nations do you consider that wrong???
In Noah's flood, what was the message being relay upon? You don't want to know all you want to know is to bash the Bible and support the right of evil or wickedness over hope and good.

Who said it is to ward off natural disaster, you?

This is what I said "Egyptians started to build great pyramids to worship their gods to pray for mercy and divine protection from natural calamities".

You imply it was build to ward off natural disaster

 

You realize the majority of earthquakes are much smaller, right?

Plus, just because natural disasters happen does not mean every civilization is going to be utterly obliterated by natural disasters.

 

How do you know the earthquakes were smaller like how small? do you have any proof?
Again, proof please how life was like in 2300 BC do they have 911, do they have speed boats, do they have cars, do they have roads and highways, do they have early warning devices, what was the size of the villages and cities if there is any in Central America, Pacific, or North America. If you can not provide specifics then you are just guessing and relaying on your faith.

 

http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/eqarchives/year/eqstats.php

http://earthquake.usgs.gov/learn/topics/increase_in_earthquakes.php

What relevance does that have to do with the fact that just because there are natural disasters, they do not mean that every civilization is going to be scoured from earth because they occur?

 

You of all people....are certainly an authority on "just guessing and relaying on your faith".

 

WOAH, I never stated that. It was certainly one of the factors, but I'm not going to ignore the fact that Christian leaders were also looking to gain riches and power.

... Mohammad died of of natural causes. The poisoning you are talking about failed. It occurred in 629 and he died in 632.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad#Death_and_tomb

[quote\You refuse any sources and only want your bias sources or personal opinion, ok here I will give you one sources read for your self
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banu_Qurayza[/quote]

And NOW you show your ignorance. Do you know who the Qurayza were and why Mohammad was at war with them? Read your own source and come back.

Seriously? Bibleprobe? And you're accusing me of bias?

Mentions no specifics at all. Mentions Jews one time off-handedly.

So, they really weren't interested at all in the Muslim aggression?

Uh, no, the Christian nations at the time were certainly not secular.

 

Theologians can't even come up with a consistent reading of the Bible which is why there are about thousands of Christian denominations.

You haven't given me an exact date for the Flood, so how would I know?

Oh, are we just making up what the other person believes/wants now?

YOU DID and then you QUOTED yourself SAYING it.

How is that not equivalent to "warding off" the disasters?

 

We do have a record of a great natural disaster around Crete which has a strange parallel with what we read in Exodus:

Published in full for the first time in Gardiner's The Admonitions of an Egyptian Sage from a Hieratic Papyrus in Leiden in 1909
http://www.henryzecher.com/papyrus_ipuwer.htm

The Papyrus Ipuwer,
Egyptian Version of the Plagues ~

A New Perspective

[Published in The Velikovskian, January 1997; this was the first scholarly work in nearly half a century to challenge Immanuel Velikovsky's view of the Papyrus Ipuwer as an Egyptian version of the plagues described in the Book of Exodus, and yet show that Velikovsky's connection of the two was correct]


Alan Gardiner, he was struck by the fact that the papyrus seemed to be a description of a great natural disaster. To Velikovsky, however, it appeared to be more than that. He believed he had found an Egyptian version of the plagues described by Moses in the Old Testament Book of Exodus.


"All the waters that were in the river were turned to blood," Moses had written. "The river is blood," Ipuwer concurred.

Moses wrote that "the hail smote every herb of the field, and brake every tree of the field." Ipuwer lamented, "Trees are destroyed" and "No fruit nor herbs are found..."

Finally, Moses wrote that "there was a thick darkness in all the land of Egypt." As Ipuwer succinctly put it, "The land is not light."

Verses common to both sources told of Egyptians searching frantically for water, the death (or loss) of fish and grain, massive destruction of trees and crops, plague upon the cattle, a great cry (or groaning) throughout the land, a consuming fire, darkness, and the escape of slaves. Moses did not specifically say that the pharaoh had perished in the Red Sea, but Ipuwer lamented the king's disappearance at the hands of poor men under circumstances that had never happened before.