"Pastor: If my children were gay, I'd ..."

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by TheChairman, Oct 3, 2014.

  1. Spooky

    Spooky Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Change it from homosexuality to another abnormal behavior such as incestual relations. Following your logic, you also agree with a brother and sister falling in love and would happily support that from what it sounds like.

    So if your daughter and son approached you one day and told you they were in love and wanted to be together you would admit that they cannot help who they are and would celebrate their union?

    Or would you smack them upside the head before rushing them to the nearest shrink?
     
  2. TheImmortal

    TheImmortal Well-Known Member

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    You have no idea what a red herring is. If you do, which you should since I've had to correct you on it and "straw man"... going so far as to ask you to define them and when you couldn't I posted the definition for you.... but if you do know what a red herring is then you're using it incorrectly.
     
  3. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    Lol, of course I do. That's whyni keep pointing yours out n

    Yes, I have routinely had to school you on your two most commonly used fallacies.
     
  4. TheImmortal

    TheImmortal Well-Known Member

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    Please define what a red herring is.
     
  5. Unifier

    Unifier New Member

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    You're supposed to love your kids. In fact, if you're a Christian, you're supposed to love everybody. But loving someone doesn't mean enabling them either. I think sometimes that's hard for some people to accept.

    I think it's unfortunate that we can't talk about this stuff more freely without people getting their feelings hurt. If people would learn not to be so easily offended, we could mend so many bridges in this country between so many different people. Think of all the good we could do if people would stop saying, "That's offensive," and would truly listen to someone instead.
     
  6. Elcarsh

    Elcarsh Well-Known Member

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    In principle yes. After all, what would be the rational argument against it?

    In practice, it's obvious that it would be too much of a taboo to celebrate it. I'm very much a pragmatist on that front.

    Ehm...no? I certainly would not smack them upside the head, because I'm not an abusive brute who thinks beating the crap out of my children would be a good idea.
     
  7. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_herring
     
  8. TheImmortal

    TheImmortal Well-Known Member

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    Good job wiki! Did you happen to notice that a red herring is not an actual fallacy but it's a generalized name for a group of fallacies? Do you know which one you're claiming I'm committing?
     
  9. Spooky

    Spooky Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Well you are honest and consistent so I cannot fault you for your reasoning, I can only respectfully disagree with you.
     
  10. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    I'm not claiming anything. I'm pointing out specifically that your argument was a red herring.
     
  11. TheImmortal

    TheImmortal Well-Known Member

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    *shake head* Do no you know which red herring I'm supposedly committing?
     
  12. Osiris Faction

    Osiris Faction Well-Known Member

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    Here's the thing...you say you aren't comparing homosexuality to these things...while insinuating that they're in the same magnitude of abhorrent.

    So I want you to quantify and qualify exactly why you find homosexuality, homosexual relationships, and homosexuals marrying to be abhorrent.

    Can you do that? Specifically and with as much detail as possible explain why you find these things to be abhorrent.
     
  13. TheImmortal

    TheImmortal Well-Known Member

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    Whether or not you consider them to be in the same magnitude of abhorrent is completely and utterly irrelevant. There are people out there who think that bestiality shouldn't even be REMOTELY on the same magnitude of abhorrent as homosexuality or child molestation... but what they think is irrelevant. It's only relevant to the people who DO think it's the same level of magnitude. And whether you like it or not, many, many, MANY people consider them to be in the same order of magnitude.

    Well I could write a book on that subject... So no I can't write it down here with as much detail as possible. At least not in one post. But I'll be happy to explain to you as we go along.

    There are many reasons we ban or discriminate against behaviors in America. Unfortunately homosexuality is an amalgamation of a good portion of these reasons and yet homosexuals expect us to believe that they are somehow immune. They want to cry about "equality" and "equal rights" when in reality they only believe in these things insofar as it furthers their agenda. In other words, they don't actually believe it... it's propaganda.

    A list of the problems with homosexuality include an absurd level of STDs, a ridiculous level of male on male child molestation, homosexuals attempting to force their ideology on our churches, homosexuals attempting to force their ideology on our children in school, homosexual marriage is a detriment on the economy, obviously religious grounds (but that's only relevant to religious people), their adoption of a child inherently leaves a child without a mother or a father, they contribute to the further feminization of the American male and possibly the worst is that once you accept the derelict perversion of homosexuality you have put yourself in an indefensible position in regards to other derelict perversions. I could go on
     
  14. Marine1

    Marine1 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I am sure there are many out there that aren't religious that don't believe in gay relationships. It's something that's been hid from society and not very well understood. Even today many feel being gay is a choice one makes. So don't be to hard on your parents. They felt you were shaming them by picking a life style they felt was wrong.
     
  15. Marine1

    Marine1 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Gays today don't do their cause any good by flaunting their relationship to the world like some do with their gay parades and being half naked. That's as bad as strait people doing the same thing. Your sexual preference is your business and no one else's. Don't throw it in people's face. Keep in in your home where it's suppose to be.
     
  16. leekohler2

    leekohler2 New Member

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    I didn't "pick" anything.
     
  17. Osiris Faction

    Osiris Faction Well-Known Member

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    Alright lets just tackle this first. So what if they find it abhorrent? Does that give them the right to take away the rights of those people who aren't committing a crime? No. Not even close. Don't like it? To bad, that is not how we work as a country.



    Is that because you can't go into details? Because you haven't thought that deeply about it? Or because you can only give what you have been taught/learned growing up?

    What is different about this from any other movement? Do christians often fight for the rights of muslims? Do muslims often fight for the rights of christians? Most individuals and groups are self serving.


    Lets go through this piece by piece here.

    Does STD rate invalidate rights for any other group? No? Why would it for homosexuals then?

    The rate of male heterosexuals assaulting female children is ridiculous. Their rights are not removed as such. Again this is an absurd argument.

    Churches are attempting to take homosexuals rights, have been involved in that for decades. Again, this is not an argument or valid reason to remove rights.

    Churches have been trying to force religion into science classrooms for decades. Schools adopt anti-bullying policies on their own. These often include anti-bullying based on sexuality. This is again...not a valid reason to remove rights.

    Patently false. Marriage is a multibillion dollar a year industry. More marriage means more money into local economies and businesses.

    One persons or a group of peoples religious beliefs/rights does not negate the rights of another person. Just because you belief something doesn't mean it has the right to affect my freedom.

    It takes a child who had no loving home and gives them one. You might not like the circumstances but that doesn't mean it isn't in the child's best interest.

    This is simply opinion. Opinion I gather that is based on nothing more than what you've been told or what parts of stereotype you take to heart. From my own experience I can tell you that's a load of bull and nothing more than an attempt to stereotype.

    Not a single bit. You attempt to make large and sweeping assumptions based an a single factor. Life doesn't fit into these small boxes you're trying to assign to homosexuals. You are trying to stereotype based on the long fear mongering work of the religious right. Nothing more.

    So in other words. Your reasons are based on next to nothing. Certainly nothing that holds to legal grounds for removal or rights.

    You have presented nothing more here than the old school bible belt arguments that stem from hate, intolerance, and fear mongering.

    You are perfectly entitled to your opinion. Just as I am to mine. Yours just happens to be wrong and won't in a million years hold up in a court.
     
  18. TheImmortal

    TheImmortal Well-Known Member

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    Have you even been paying attention or are you just running your mouth? The discussion is about how leekohler could not understand how his parents could treat him the way they did. WTF are you even talking about?

     
  19. Marine1

    Marine1 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I see what I said went right over your head.
     
  20. Spooky

    Spooky Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If I have a penis and a pair of boobs in my face I would pick the boobs, you would pick the penis.

    It is definitely a choice you make.
     
  21. Grokmaster

    Grokmaster Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Do the Done-o-crats' supporters plan to post a SINGLE THREAD regarding ISSUES RELEVANT TO THE UPCOMING ELECTION...anytime between now and then?
     
  22. snakestretcher

    snakestretcher Banned

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    Tough; it's none of their business what other adults (their children) choose to do.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Utterly clueless. Did you choose to be a heterosexual, and if so when did you make that conscious decision?
     
  23. RPA1

    RPA1 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If a 'gay gene' is found, look for lots of aborted gay fetuses.
     
  24. CJtheModerate

    CJtheModerate New Member

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    You are probably correct.
     
  25. btthegreat

    btthegreat Well-Known Member

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    This is all especially tricky, in a generation where some people of faith could not allow themselves to be concerned with this life, this world's pain because a beloved's choice was damning them to eternal hell. That kind of anquish in a brainwashed parent has to be indescribable. Eternity outside the grace of God's forgiveness, and the peace/joy it provides , into hellfire and brimstone forever and forever after that. That is one hell of a propaganda machine to control empathy and compassion in this world, especially if it is your child at risk.

    If your pastor is saying a sign of weakness, means even a small chance of risking their kid to the flame and torture of Satan's sadism for eons, its got to be unimaginably hard to give in to the more humane appraoch we now embrace. that behavior in these cases is not about pride and control out of a desire to be more right than your child, but a sense of utter terror beyond whether he is cold and alone or sick on a streetcorner or terribly sad.

    it pays to understand where your parents are coming from and why they are acting the way they are even if you can't forgive it.
     

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