Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by TheChairman, Oct 3, 2014.
You honestly think that people just decide to be gay ?
Nobody has demonstrated the ability to freely switch sexual orientation.
Change in behaviour doesn't demonstrate change in orientation (and you can just try to dismiss bisexuality all you like). A change in orientation would need some kind of involuntary responses to be studied rather than voluntary behaviour.
Of course, you'd also have to explain the process a person would use to make such a change. I'm willing to submit myself as a guinea pig. I'm a heterosexual male who has never felt any kind of attraction to other men at any time. How would I go about eliminating my attraction to females and creating an attraction to males?
That is correct, no choice. You are heterosexual. At what point in your life did you choose to be that? You didn't. You were attracted to the opposite sex, sexually. Same goes for a homosexual, except they are sexually attracted to the same sex. Has nothing to do with genes in the same manner, as "form" of an organism is not genetic, but epigenetic. We don't understand yet what dictates form, but Sheldrake says morphogenetic fields dictate form.
If genetics explained everything there would have been some happy investors instead of sad ones at the conclusion of the human genome project.
I am assuming you have heard of Rupert Sheldrake.
The following is not speaking about the aforementioned story.
However, it is unfortunate the many stories that have been revealed about science already having found proof of Gay origins yet due to society's feelings and pressure on this issue by conservatives to keep it under wraps, although many are evolving towards being more pro-Gay, still makes those scientists and medical people who have found the proof to not openly reveal that they have, under pressure from some employers. And when an employer tells a scientist or medical doctor who has found a cure for Cancer, let's say, that they should not feel free to reveal to the world that there is now a cure, guess what happens? The cure for Cancer or other things remains politically suppressed, most unfortunately. But that's obviously not to say that the discovery as not been made.
Seems to me those highly religious parents who "disown" their gay children HAVE to believe that homosexuality is a lifestyle choice, because if its not, then their GOD made their child gay which must be either a punishment of the parents or a test of their faith, one which by disowning their flesh and blood they have failed miserably.
so naturally its a lifestyle, a choice, it is an expression of the free will GOD gave everyone, and yet another dogmatic hypocrisy is elminated.
I can't choose to get turned on by a fat black woman.... I'm not genetically born not liking black women with big butts, but it doesn't change the fact that I am simply not attracted to them sexually.
now, insert ANY for FAT BLACK, and bam.... environmentally influenced gay, without any choice in the matter
You know I agree 100% with every word of that, but this can be an agonizing path, as long as they are sold on this notion of hell as a place to punish 'lost' souls and in many communities in the south especially, they have been virually surrounded in every pew, and most congregations throughout the region since birth with absolute re-enforcement of that vision of God and Christianity.
I am saying it is very hard when you think you might be risking the soul of your child by giving even the slightest visible sign of ambivolence.
what, you mean the GROWN UPS? the ones who volunteered to take on the role of unconditional supporters of unique human beings ... younger and more fragile than themselves?
any parent who DOES wring their hands when their kids don't turn out exactly like them, is almost psychiatrically arrested in development. most 12 year olds are already beyond expecting a cookie cutter world.
shame is for children. what's with these infantile parents!
was going to ask the same thing myself. these people appear to have spent about 000.3 picoseconds thinking about this.
and just what would 'not accepting' a son's gayness look like, in practice? spell out exactly how your refusal to accept would manifest?
if you can't, you'll make the leap (hopefully) to understanding that it doesn't matter a good (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*) whether you like it or not, since it's going to happen regardless of how much internal disdain you entertain. unless of course you think that feeding the monster that is your disapproval would somehow be beneficial to you or to your child .. and further, you actually think it powerful enough to change other human beings.
When did you choose your heterosexual 'lifestyle' over being gay? Sexual attraction is not a decision-making process.
everytime I choose to turn down penis....
That's it? Sorry but that makes no sense whatsoever. I asked earlier when you were conscious of making an informed decision as to which 'lifestyle' you deliberately chose. You were sexually attracted to women, yes? Was that a decision you consciously made?
I'm straight and never had kids which may have been a let down to my parents but they wisely never mentioned it..
I lived MY life and they lived THEIRS. If parents can't understand that they do NOT own their children too bad, they're in for disappointment...and people who get married and have children because that's what their parents want are idiots.
Isn't the "child" responsible for his own soul?
Will intolerance and cruelty save anyone's soul???
Are you saying you find penises sexually appealing but just choose not to act on that?
nope, because i choose not to
Would you be willing to temporarily choose to be sexually attracted to men to support your point?
You never did explain to me the process by which we could achieve that feat (purely out of scientific curiosity you understand).
I don't know what you want here. If you are expecting me to argue a position I don't hold, I won't. I am an agnostic gay man. I would suspect that many relgious parents often feel that if they are weak or ambivolent in the face of what they perceive as overtly sinful behavior in their children, they may be partly to blame for condoning a sinful lifestyle. I agree with you, but then I am not a beleiver in hell, Satan and sin.
They're making penises in the lab now so everyone will be able to get one per his or her specification. Just a nugget to keep in mind.
To the very religious. The pecking order is God, family, and self. Very tuff order to change.
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