Paul, a false prophet?

Is "speaking" not also 'communicating'? So now communication skills to include speaking is determined by 'brain' size? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sperm_whale
Some Parrots talk. Some of those parrots (very few of course) are even capable of answering questions and making requests.

Based upon the run of the mill experiences of most people, I have to concede that it SEEMS true that snakes and donkeys cannot talk. On the other hand, the entire population of donkeys and snakes have not been interviewed by a team of research scientists. So the best GUESS is that they normally cannot speak.

 

LOL! Only humans have the full FOXP2 gene that determines our ability to formulate and understand speech.

There are higher primates, etc, that can communicate, but not actually formulate speech. Some birds are very intelligent, and can mimic human sounds, and memorize quite a few words and phrases and associate them correctly - but they can't actually formulate speech.

 

So what? The statement of the Bible is clear that Jesus Christ was God in the flesh. And that was what I was addressing.

I was answering another about the Bible and Christ never claiming that Christ was God. When you enter into a post not directed to you, you should at least consider the context. The Old Testament reference does pertain to the point I was making, which is that Christ is God. I AM was the name God gave to Moses to tell Israel who had sent him. Jesus Christ told the Jews, before Abraham was 'I am'. He was showing that He was the very One.

The Jews understood exactly what He was saying as they then tried to kill Him. John 8:59

Sure, you can translate it anyway you like, but the correct translation is "Before Abraham was, I am. "

Quantrill

 

Yes, it gives the size of the Ark. And it also indicates it is sufficient for the purpose. Why do you believe the size given yet don't believe it fulfilled its purpose?

Christians believe the Bible is the Word of God.

Quantrill

 

This passage in John is controversial, as is the translation of this passage.

You should check into what is thought to be meant by this passage.

As for the term "I am" it is not Gods name.

When Jacob wrestles with God and asks for a name God tells Jacob that he can not be told the name of God.

This makes sense because it was believed that if you knew the name of a God you had power over it.

Same thing for the Egyptians and Moses was raised as an Egyptian.

When he asks God "how shall I call you" God says the same thing he said to Jacob. I am that I am.

This is not a name but an avoidance of a response.

The translation of (I am that I am) is "I shall become who I am becomming"

Notice the difference in meaning.

Got then says : Tell them I shall become has sent you.

In other words .. The God that will become has sent Moses.

http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/exo3.pdf

 

The passage is not controversial. It is quite clear. Christ identified Himself with the I Am who spoke to Moses. The Jews understood it quite well which is why the tried to stone Him. He made Himself to be God, which He was.

As in John 5:18 " Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God. "

See, what you have trouble understanding, the Jews did not. Jesus Christ claimed to be God.

Quantrill

 

Christ claimed to be the Son of God. This is why he refers to God as Father so often.

This was one of the problems for the Jews, granted. (Claiming to be a messenger for God is also a problem)

Examine the words of Christ, as opposed to someone writing about Christ many centuries after the fact.

Christ's words characterize him as the messenger of God.. not as God.

 

Christ claimed to be God when He identified Himself with the I Am in Exodus. The Jews understood it.

Christ in claiming to be the Son of God, made Himself equal with God. In other words, God. Again, the Jews understood it. John 5:18 "...making himself equal with God".

Examine a little more closely.

Quantrill

 

Here is a good page discussing the meaning of "I am"

http://www.bluethread.com/ehyeh.htm

Possible translations given are:

From a Biblical perspective .. do the Jews believe that "I am" is the name of God ?

The answer Moses got, just like the answer Jacob got (I can not tell you), was vague, ambiguous, and is not really an answer to Moses's question.

 

If you cannot tell, why are you telling me.

Jesus identified with the I Am who spoke to Moses. Jesus Christ identified Himeself as God.

Just like John 1:1 and 1:14 declare that Jesus Christ was God.

Sorry if you don't know. But the Scriptures are clear.

Quantrill

 

You can believe that if you wish but the scripture is anything from clear.

The passages in John do not have Jesus claiming to be God plain and simple.

 

If the Scripture is not clear, as you say, how can you say the passages " do not have Jesus claiming to be God, plain and simple.".

Pretty inconsistant and contridictory.

The Scriptures are clear that Jesus claimed to be God, and that the Scriptures declare Jesus Christ as God.

Proving you made a false claim in the begining.

Quantrill

 

Your passages from John do not have Jesus claiming to be God.

The passages from John you gave are not the words of Jesus.

 

Yes they do. And Yes they are. John 8:58. And John 1:1, 1:14.

You disagree with the Bible. Guess which one I believe. It aint you.

Quantrill

 

John 1:1 and 1:14 are easily dispensed with because it is not Jesus speaking.

John 8:58 needs to be read in context with John 8:57

What Jesus is saying here is that he existed before Abraham.

 

You can dispense with it all if you like. It doesn't matter to me. But, John is a book of the Bible which is the Word of God. And so the Word of God says Jesus Christ is God.

Yes Jesus is clear He existed before Abraham. Yet he uses the very words God used in Exodus. He didn't say I existed before Abraham. He said before Abraham was, I am. God.

Quantrill

 

First off, those other passages from John were written many years after Christ and so are not the words of Christ, nor is it even clear that those passages claim that Christ is God when they are translated properly.

Jesus does not say " I am God" in John 8 58. What is said is that "before Abraham I am"

or I am before Abraham.

Later in John Jesus does talk about his relationship to God directly.

John 14: 28 “My Father is greater than I am”

Here is a quote of Jesus discussing his relationship with the father. We do not need to guess, make things up, stretch or any such thing.

It is very clear .. The Father is greater than the son ..

Jesus is the son and messenger of God.

 

No, the whole book of John is the Word of God.

No, Christ said, Before Abraham was, I am.

The Father is greater than the Son. So? The Son is still God. Just as Jesus would later say in John 17:5 "And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. "

Yes it is clear, the Father is greater, yet the Son is God.

Quantrill

 

Re-read that. The hebrew Moshiah is not a God - and not part of a trinity.

 

COMMON SENSE! The size has been worked up, and obviously can't hold even a fraction of the world's critters.

And that not even calling into account that 8 people couldn't feed, water, and scoop-poop for that many. Nor could they live with the uric acid from all that pee!

Or the fact that such a flood would mix fresh and salt water killing the ocean critters as well - so - where did he stick the tank for all those pairs of whales, and all the rest?

The story is clearly false when you start thinking about it, and I can't believe Christians believe it to be true, rather then a teaching tale.

 

As has been shown - that is not what the verses actually say.

 

We are talking different words and translations here. - Greek, Hebrew/Aramaic - and the New Testament not written until decades after Iesous' death.

What does John say - I am not the Christos (Moshesh) - implying that Iesous is the awaited Hebrew Moshesh.

The Hebrew MOSHESH is NOT A GOD! And NOT a trinity!

Put the word in Google - choose a Jewish site - not Christian - and read up on this!

In other words the title/position being claimed is from the Hebrew religion which is specific that Moshesh is not a GOD.

The idea that Moshesh is a "God" is pagan crap added in after Iesous Christos' death.

 

Yes, that is what you say. The Bible says differently. Jesus said 'before Abraham was, I am '. John 8

The Bible declares Jesus as God, John 1:1 and 1:14

The Baptism of Christ in Matt. 3:16-17 show the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Quantrill

 

The record of the Flood in the Bible is true. All events surrounding that flood are God ordered. It's over your head, I know, but it is from God.

Quantrill

 

No, 'your' talking different words and translations. Which as I say, translate it anyway you like. John 1:2 and 1:14 declare Jesus Christ as God.

Yes, John the Baptist said he was not the Messiah and that Jesus was. And the Bible is clear that this Messiah would be God.

Is. 40:3 The voice of him that crieth in the wildeerness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.

Matt. 3:1-3 In those days came John the Bapitst, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea, and saying, Repent ye; for the kingdom of heave is at hand, For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.

The Messiah who is heralded by the forerunner, is both Jehovah and Elohim.

Jesus Christ is God, that second Person of the Trinity.

Quantrill