Paul, a false prophet?

Not at all .. I just do not get that out of that passage. It does not make any sense in relation to the context of what Jesus is talking about.

 

I did not state "emphatically" that I had a vision. It is you that is a disingenuous liar.

Show where I stated "emphatically" that I had a vision.

Only a fool would demand proof of something that can not be proven. What possible proof could one provide of a vision that one had while alone ?

 

The record speaks for itself. We have already covered that material, so quit being redundant.

 

Jesus was talking about judgment, comparing too the pharisees. It's not a mind boggler.

 

Jesus is talking about fulfillment of the law. http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+5-7&version=NIV

Pay particular attention from verse 19 onward. It is doing what is commanded that is important. Faith is not mentioned nor implied.

Righteousness - Doing what is right ! .. doing what is commanded in the law.

To enter the kingdom of Heaven you must surpass the righteousness of the Parasees and "teachers of the law"

This would not have been too difficult in Jesus's day. He complained about the way these folks acted. (Probably sleeping with temple prostitutes on a regular basis or some such thing)

This has nothing to do with Paul's comments on faith.

No need to complicate the simple message Jesus was trying to get across to the masses. Do good .. not evil.

Jesus says nothing about needing to believe in the resurrection story in order for one to get into heaven.

 

What I'm trying to say is it's about both.

The judgment is to be aware of what good is. Faith is what holds you to it..

Jesus didn't mention faith in that verse but he did in others.

What do you think it means to be born again of the Spirit ?

 

The fact that some religious "people" believe they talk to god just shows how many superstitious nuts we have in the world. OR, maybe many of those who talk to god are just seeking power, and attention, lol, hmm, darn - did I hit on something there?

 

NONE--therefore only a fool would go around 'bragging' about something with no valid substance, which could be a lie, a drug induced imaginary vision or plain insanity.

 

After one dies .. one is reborn in spiritual form ?

What passage are you referring to ?

 

Ezekiel 36:26
English Standard Version (ESV)

26And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.


John 3
You Must Be Born Again
1Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. 2This man came to Jesus[a] by night and said to him, "Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher come from God, for no one can do these signs that you do unless God is with him." 3Jesus answered him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God." 4Nicodemus said to him, "How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?" 5Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.[c] 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, 'You[d] must be born again.'

8 The wind[e] blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit."
9Nicodemus said to him, "How can these things be?" 10Jesus answered him, "Are you the teacher of Israel and yet you do not understand these things? 11Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know, and bear witness to what we have seen, but you[f] do not receive our testimony. 12If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how can you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man.[g] 14And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15that whoever believes in him may have eternal life.[h]

 

Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Makes sense .. you have to be resurrected "born again" in order to see the Kingdom of God.

Seems rather simple. Flesh is Flesh , Spirit is Spirit.

While you are flesh you will "not" see the Kingdom of God. End of Story.

When you die .. and your spirit leaves the Flesh .. and that Spirit is resurrected "born again" .. and there is some kind of ritual involving water and the Holy Spirit which sets your Spirit free ..

Then you can see the Kingdom of Heaven.

Jesus clarifies further. The only person who ascended from Earth to Heaven (as in his flesh and blood Body went there) is Jesus.

What we also can infer from this statement is that no one of Flesh, except Jesus, can see the Kingdom of Heaven.

Seems pretty clear to me.

This is not the first time I have reviewed these passages. I did this many years ago and have revisited them many times .

The Pentacostals have it wrong.

 

The Pentacostals are making things up to suit their own beliefs when they think they are "reborn" on earth. Not suprising because these folks do this with many Bible passages.

A second thing to note is that John was written a long time after the death of Christ, (90-100 AD) and it may have changed a fair bit since then.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_John

Even if we take the passage at face value as written today it seems pretty clear that "rebirth" while on earth is not what is being discussed.

The idea that mere "belief" that Jesus ascended in fleshly form guarantee's eternal life contradicts previous and earlier traditions based on the Sermon on the mount. This idea does not seem to Jive with the rest of the Bible and especially not the OT.

This "may" have been a belief of a small Johannine community but even this is a stretch because the last line could have easily been inserted at a later date and nor is it clear exactly what "belief" in Jesus entails. More properly it should likely read belief in the message of Jesus and following that message

 

By all means, please do count me as a 'fool' in your minds eye. In doing so, I become a "fool for the glory of God and Jesus". Thank you, both you and Giftedone, for the compliment.

 

1) I did not call you a fool - I merely gave a description of what I think the characteristics of a fool are .. if the shoe fits ? it is your problem not mine.

2) I hardly think that claiming to speak on behalf of God is something that God Glorifies.

Rather, I think there are few things that would (*)(*)(*)(*) God off more than some human claiming " God says this" "God says that" on the basis of what that person things are conversations with the Holy Spirit.

You do not know for sure what the exact nature of the entities that you have daily conversations with is. You can not say for sure if it is not the devil playing tricks on your or that it is an over active imagination.

You can not rule out that there is a slight chance that you have been tricked.

As such there are two possibilities:

The first is that there is no God and so your blasphamy of God will go un- noticed

The second is that there is a God and this God has taken note of your vanity in claiming to speak on his behalf without his permission and then you are in big trouble.

Swearing oaths to God is the action of a Fool, for the reasons described above. Claiming to speak on behalf of God without Gods permission is no different.

 

Paul was a freeloading con man. How many times do his "friends" help him out while he never lifts a finger to actually work or contribute to society? Like a con man, he was arrested and executed. No big surprise. He had visions of wealth and power. He just wasn't as good a con man as Smith or Mohammad.

 

They presume to speak for God because deep down, they know the God they worship is actually themselves. They talk to themselves and they worship themselves and they think so highly of themselves. God is just a hypothetical remote entity that saves them from revealing their intense arrogance.

 

Unfortunately that is not the end of story. "And he said to them, "I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God come with power." ~JC

If it was that simple, Jesus would have just told the guy that he can't see the kingdom until he died. LOL

 

This is when Jesus was talking about the end times was it not ?

This was then a predictions of Jesus that did not come true or was mistransalted by a copyist or something that was made up in relation to something Jesus said.