PETER HITCHENS: Wear a mask if you want - but understand it's about fear and control, NOT health...

Discussion in 'Coronavirus Pandemic Discussions' started by InWalkedBud, Jan 5, 2023.

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  1. Overitall

    Overitall Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I was told, by my granddaughter that works the floor where my wife's room is, that inside her room it wasn't necessary. Except by the nurses. I just don't understand the inconsistency. I don't mind rules out in public places, but at least be consistent with them.
     
  2. Sleep Monster

    Sleep Monster Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Was anyone making that analogy? I thought it was a decent expression of logic and reason for wearing masks, period. I think we all know the difference between an OR and our local supermarket. The point is that a mask protects those we encounter when we feel sick or have reason to believe that we could be spreading a virus. Like, during flu season, and now due to possible COVID infection.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2023
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  3. ECA

    ECA Well-Known Member

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    The bottom line is the CDC isn’t mandating/forcing any doctors offices to have staff and patients wear masks as you tried to claim.

     
  4. Sleep Monster

    Sleep Monster Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    See #103.

    In addition to wiping the sweat off the surgeon's brow (which by the way is seldom necessary with the temperatures maintained in ORs), nurses have many other duties. Are you going to tell them masks are optional when you're on the table?
     
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  5. Sleep Monster

    Sleep Monster Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    When did the government mandate masks? Can you cite the legislation?

    I think federal, state, and local governments mandated it for government employees, but one could choose to stay home or work fir an employer who had no mandate. Like meat packing plants, for example. Of course, those workers were dropping like flies by summer of 2020.

    The CDC mandated it for those using public transportation, but even then, one could choose not to use public trans.

    Urging, even coercing, is not the same thing as a legal requirement. It was, in fact, left up to corporations, including those corporations running hospitals and other medical offices. It was, in fact, left up to individual stores as well.

    I recommend you try grinding some other ax.
     
  6. Sleep Monster

    Sleep Monster Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It was. See #108.
     
  7. Sleep Monster

    Sleep Monster Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    As the CDC did for public transportation. See #108.
     
  8. Sleep Monster

    Sleep Monster Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Oh come on! That was funny, admit it.

    :grin:
     
  9. Sleep Monster

    Sleep Monster Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That never happened.
     
  10. Sleep Monster

    Sleep Monster Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    A guideline is not a legal requirement or mandate.
     
  11. FAW

    FAW Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    There is something called a sterile field in the operating room. All participants wear a mask in order to maintain the integrity of that sterile field by stopping respiratory secretions from getting into that sterile field ( it has not one thing to do with capturing aerosolized virus). Only people that are scrubbed in are allowed to touch anything within that sterile field, or the sterile field itself will be compromised. Typically only one or two people are scrubbed in while the remainder are not.

    The real world, however, does not contain a sterile field. You obviously also cannot mandate that people do not touch anything in the real world. This does NOT mean that I therefore want to tell everyone in the O.R. to touch whatever they would like the next time myself or a loved one has an operation. Acting as if that is somehow analogous is silly.
     
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  12. FAW

    FAW Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes he was making that analogy, and you did the same thing in your post to which I replied directly above.

    If you notice above where I pointed out above that they wear masks in the OR to stop respiratory secretions as opposed to stopping aerosolized virus, the same thing applies in the real world.

    Now if you take that knowledge and apply it to the real world, it is vitally important for you to understand that the means of transmission is darn near close to exclusively being from aerosolized virus as opposed to the direct introduction of respiratory droplets making contact with the mucus membrane of nearby people, or surfaces that they touch somehow getting introduced into a mucus membrane. It happens, but is flat out not typically how this virus is spread. With that knowledge, all of a sudden the entire society wearing masks in contrast to the harm those masks cause in comparison to how much transmission they stop, is not such a good trade-off. The juice is just not worth the squeeze.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2023
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  13. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    It is when almost every state and many cities in America turn it into a law.
     
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  14. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    It is to a leftie who accepts government lies. But it is the actual science.
     
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  15. Rampart

    Rampart Banned

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    this is a very important concept. think about your post in the context of the larger world.
     
  16. ECA

    ECA Well-Known Member

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    My state GOVERNMENT mandated masks in 2020.
     
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  17. ECA

    ECA Well-Known Member

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    By ‘public’ I was referring to having to wear masks in stores, restaurants, arenas, etc.
     
  18. ECA

    ECA Well-Known Member

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    Nope. Not in my state in 2020. Business were ordered to wear masks.
     
  19. Overitall

    Overitall Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Give me some idea of what you think I should think about.
     
  20. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    Follow the data -- the science. "14 randomized controlled trials" "from 1946 to 2018" "did not support a substantial effect on transmission of laboratory-confirmed influenza." Case closed with respect to "hand hygiene or face masks".

    Although mechanistic studies support the potential effect of hand hygiene or face masks, evidence from *** 14 randomized controlled trials*** of these measures did not support a substantial effect on transmission of laboratory-confirmed influenza. We similarly found limited evidence on the effectiveness of improved hygiene and environmental cleaning. We identified several major knowledge gaps requiring further research, most fundamentally an improved characterization of the modes of person-to-person transmission.”
    Volume 26, Number 5—May 2020, Policy Review, Nonpharmaceutical Measures for Pandemic Influenza in Nonhealthcare Settings—Personal Protective and Environmental Measures, Jingyi Xiao1, Eunice Y. C. Shiu1, Huizhi Gao, Jessica Y. Wong, Min W. Fong, Sukhyun Ryu, and Benjamin J. Cowling, Author affiliations: University of Hong Kong, Hong Kong, China. (emphasis mine)
    https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/5/19-0994_article
     
  21. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    Stop spreading disinformation that can cost human lives!!!!

    From your link: "Most studies were underpowered because of limited sample size, and some studies also reported suboptimal adherence in the face mask group."

    The majority of the most SERIOUS face-mask studies began in 2020 as Covid 19 spread. And the result is unequivocal as far as their effectivity to stop non-covid respiratory diseases. A reduction of 50%!
    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.12.08.22283268v1

    Covid combined with other respiratory diseases, is what is causing most loss of life right now.

    So what is it with you guys and this obsession with cherry-picking studies to get people to not do something that can save their life! Are you not concerned at all about even a remote possibility that this out-of-context nonsense you spread can end up killing somebody? Does the right-wingers STATED (though nobody believes them) concern for human life END at birth?
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2023
  22. Sleep Monster

    Sleep Monster Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Please link to any law in any state or city that makes it illegal to not wear a mask.
     
  23. Sleep Monster

    Sleep Monster Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    For everyone? Or just for state employees, and those wanting to enter government buildings?

    Got a link? Can you cite an actual code?
     
  24. Sleep Monster

    Sleep Monster Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And I'm saying that to my knowledge, as someone who pays attention, those public places that are privately owned, like stores and restaurants, could require masks or not, as they so chose. A mandate by Walmart executives is not a law.
     
  25. Sleep Monster

    Sleep Monster Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Please cite that code.
     

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