Planned Parenthood tweets "Happy Mother's Day!"

It's funny that you (pl) do not understand the basic point. Either something is wrong, or it is right. There is no changing from wrong one day or place, to right on another day or place.

 

Yes, if they say a baby in the womb is not a baby. As they were in error in changing the meaning of "marriage".

Carl Sagan is correct. But is the debate when did life begin, or when does a human life begin? Of course, even Carl Sagan had to qualify his remarks by saying, "They are not human beings, of course. However, it could be argued that neither is a fertilized egg." Which means conversely, it could be argued that a fertilized egg is a human being.

I don't know what that is a photo of. It's not a fetus.

 

I fully understand the point, it is however incorrect. History shows us all to well that what is right one day or in one place is wrong the next day or in a different place. eg in statutory rape laws there are differences between states, in Alaska for instance the age of consent is 16 ANY sexual intercourse before that age with a person over 16 is statutory rape, while in In New Jersey, the age of consent is 16, but individuals who are at least 13 years of age can legally engage in sexual activities if the defendant is less than 4 years older than the victim.

So a boy of 18 having sex with a 15 year old girl in Alaska is statutory rape, but it is not statutory rape in New Jersey ergo what is wrong in one place on one day in Alaska is not wrong in another place on another day in New Jersey. Where does this leave your "Either something is wrong, or it is right" ideology?

Furthermore it was not until the ratification of the 13th Amendment in 1865 that slavery went from being right to wrong.

 

The accuracy of a definition doesn't depend on whether you personally like it.

Sagan addressed when a human life begins. It doesn't begin at conception, because life doesn't spring from non-life. The fertilized egg is alive because the sperm and egg were alive. That life came from the previous generation, which got its life from generations before it. It isn't accurate to say "life begins at conception," regardless of how YOU define "life."

Sagan very wisely said "It could be argued that neither is a fertilized egg," because unlike you and other pro-lifers he understands the point at which one becomes a human being is arguable. There is no consensus among scholars.

According to you, it's a person and a human being.

 

I suppose next Planned Parenthood is going to begin hosting workshops on how expectant mothers can bond with their unborn child.

 

Why not ? They do pre-natal care......affordable pre-natal care which you want to eliminate.

 

I've already responded to all the issues in this post and have proven my point. What is the point in proving you wrong again?

 

I've been reading all the posts in here and haven't seen you prove a point yet. Saying you did doesn't make it true. It's like saying a fetus is a baby over and over again.... that doesn't , and hasn't, made it true...

 

In case you need reminding, this is about morality and my view is that morality is not subject to popular opinion. You seem to be confusing morality with legality. While an 18 year old having sex with a 15 year old in Alaska is statutory rape but in New Jersey an 18 year old having sex with a 15 year old is legal, an 18 year old having sex with a 15 year old is immoral in both states.

Likewise, whether the year is 1864 or 2015, slavery is immoral all the time.

 

It is always helpful for a definition to be accurate and accepted in order to be useful and understood.

Whether a fertilized egg is a human being is not as important as nobody ever became a human being without the egg being fertilized. It is the first step in the process, thus, life begins at conception.

According to you, it's a person and a human being.[/QUOTE]
If you say so. I'll take your word for it.

 

A fetus is a baby in the early stages of prenatal development.
A fetus is a child in the early stages of prenatal development.
A fetus is a person in the early stages of prenatal development.
A fetus is a human being in the early stages of prenatal development.

All the above statements is true.

I don't know why you have to create strawman arguments as I've never denied the existence of a fetus. A fetus is essential to life.

 

Still beating that hollow drum I see.

 

The very fact that laws have changed to reflect changes in morality proves you wrong, just as morality over all has changed with cultural changes.

You are basing your morality on what your current culture tells you is right or wrong, the culture of the USA at its founding was a little different to now and slavery was seen as morally right, just as rape within marriage was seen as morally right by the people of that time.

Even the bible condones slavery, and the murder of children

However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the slave may plainly declare, 'I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.' If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever. (Exodus 21:2-6 NLT)

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)

Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)

Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

From there Elisha went up to Bethel. While he was on his way, some small boys came out of the city and jeered at him. "Go up baldhead," they shouted, "go up baldhead!" The prophet turned and saw them, and he cursed them in the name of the Lord. Then two shebears came out of the woods and tore forty two of the children to pieces. (2 Kings 2:23-24 NAB)

Make ready to slaughter his sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and posses the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants. (Isaiah 14:21 NAB)

The glory of Israel will fly away like a bird, for your children will die at birth or perish in the womb or never even be conceived. Even if your children do survive to grow up, I will take them from you. It will be a terrible day when I turn away and leave you alone. I have watched Israel become as beautiful and pleasant as Tyre. But now Israel will bring out her children to be slaughtered." O LORD, what should I request for your people? I will ask for wombs that don't give birth and breasts that give no milk. The LORD says, "All their wickedness began at Gilgal; there I began to hate them. I will drive them from my land because of their evil actions. I will love them no more because all their leaders are rebels. The people of Israel are stricken. Their roots are dried up; they will bear no more fruit. And if they give birth, I will slaughter their beloved children." (Hosea 9:11-16 NLT)

Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children. But do not touch anyone with the mark. Begin your task right here at the Temple." So they began by killing the seventy leaders. "Defile the Temple!" the LORD commanded. "Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill! Go!" So they went throughout the city and did as they were told." (Ezekiel 9:5-7 NLT)

And at midnight the LORD killed all the firstborn sons in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sat on the throne, to the firstborn son of the captive in the dungeon. Even the firstborn of their livestock were killed. Pharaoh and his officials and all the people of Egypt woke up during the night, and loud wailing was heard throughout the land of Egypt. There was not a single house where someone had not died. (Exodus 12:29-30 NLT)

If even then you remain hostile toward me and refuse to obey, I will inflict you with seven more disasters for your sins. I will release wild animals that will kill your children and destroy your cattle, so your numbers will dwindle and your roads will be deserted. (Leviticus 26:21-22 NLT)

Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes. For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off. The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children. (Isaiah 13:15-18 NLT)

You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to human traditions. And he continued, “You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe[a] your own traditions! For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and mother,’ and, ‘Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.’ (Mark 7:8-10 NIV

 

No. I just don't want to beat a dead horse when you've already confessed to being ignorant.

 

Still beating that hollow drum I see, along with proclaiming something you have shown only applies to you.

 

You didn't have to go through that much work to tell us that you are not morally opposed to slavery.

 

THAT is an out and out LIE, the poster NEVER stated that.... He just showed that YOUR bible does condone slavery....are you against the buybull?

 

Wrong. His point being that morality is not universal and that morality is determined by place or time or public opinion, local customs or laws. He pointed out that slavery was moral. I am stating that while it was legal, it was never moral. Read the thread if you don't believe me.

 

Here is his post :

Quote Originally Posted by Fugazi View Post

The very fact that laws have changed to reflect changes in morality proves you wrong, just as morality over all has changed with cultural changes.

You are basing your morality on what your current culture tells you is right or wrong, the culture of the USA at its founding was a little different to now and slavery was seen as morally right, just as rape within marriage was seen as morally right by the people of that time.

Even the bible condones slavery, and the murder of children"""""



SHOW WHERE HE SAID HE CONDONES SLAVERY




If you believe in the bible then YOU condone slavery.

 

I see you are resorting to lying again.

 

I said he was not morally opposed to slavery. I saw his post, and others which state that slavery is moral, and I did not comment on his "rape within marriage" is moral argument either.

My point is, while something may be legal, that doesn't make it moral.

I'll take a pass on your slanderous attack on Jews and Christians.

 

You've just basically made the case that slavery is not immoral.

 

Really, then your reading comprehension is lacking, or are you just attempting to misrepresent?

 

"""""""""""Quote Originally Posted by Fugazi View Post

The very fact that laws have changed to reflect changes in morality proves you wrong, just as morality over all has changed with cultural changes.

You are basing your morality on what your current culture tells you is right or wrong, the culture of the USA at its founding was a little different to now and slavery was seen as morally right, just as rape within marriage was seen as morally right by the people of that time.

Even the bible condones slavery, and the murder of children"""""
SHOW WHERE HE SAID HE CONDONES SLAVERY you have NOT shown where he condones slavery....or said he thought it was morally acceptable.....he did NOT......and YOU haven't shown he did.



You bet you'll "pass" on any "slanderous attack" on Jews and Christians because you LIED AS USUAL about there being one....yet another of your claims where you have NO proof.....that's why you won't ever go to the debate forum, you will be called on your lies....