Pope suggests Catholic Church could bless same-sex couples

You choose your own then and serve him/her.

 

That you have the ability to admit you people are picking the god you like best and then simultaneously expecting anyone else to take you seriously is fascinating as all hell.

 

Not really. Every Christian-lead country before the 1800s executed "sinners," the book of Romans specifically celebrates this, and of course that was the name of the game under Old Testament laws as well. The only idea that Christians should only engage in verbal condemnation, without any corporal punishment, is entirely modern.

 

It takes time for a religion to change.

These issues that are tied to the church start out being absolutes, where disobedience means hell as well as severe temporal punishment.

So, we see small changes adding up over time, with some religions moving faster, splitting over these issues, etc.

And, people get married for all the same reasons. Saying it's for taxes is an insult.

 

Why is it an insult? It was most of the argument for gay marriage before Obergefell was decided. Heterosexual marriages have several special advantages that come with marriage. Better tax rates, shared property rights, direct inheritance, etc. Haven't read Obergefell myself, but I'd wager part of the decision had to do with unequal treatment.

Of course, those advantages are all based on the fact that heterosexual relationships are the only relationships that can produce new life that needs to be protected to the greatest extent possible, but that doesn't usually enter into any discussion. Particularly because that's a historically Christian idea that the current rising tides of neo-paganism find offensive.

There shouldn't be any offense in the truth.

 

The message of Christianity is we are all sinners, some forgiven by Grace. Granted, Religion has often perverted that.

 

Great post!

 

Thanks. Ran across this piece a couple months ago. You might, like me, find it somewhere between fascinating and revolting.

https://www.firstthings.com/article/2023/10/we-are-repaganizing

 

OK, two problems. First, no. Taxes was never the issue. Marriage confers all sorts of rights, such as inheritance, medical decision making, what happens to kids if one partner dies, financial responsibility, etc. Think about all the protections that exist in divorce law - a lot, right?

The second is ridiculous. You don't have to be married, or young enough, or any other such requirement in order to have kids. Christianity doesn't forbid singles from having kids.

And, all kids need the protection and nurturing you hint at. Do you think the amount of nurturing and protection you hint at should be determined based on whether kids are adopted???

 

It's good for the Catholic Church. Their pedophile priests problems are forcing many Catholics to seek other Christian churches.

 

Exactly and see how man has brought this world from killing with sticks and stones to nuclear holocaust. God gave us free will and turned us loose. God made things more interesting by casting Lucifer out of Heaven and down to earth along with his followers. Is it true the Devil helped create the world we live in?

 

That article is something I wish every Christian would take to heart! Thanks for sharing.

 

Since my non-denominational beginning, I have met and worshipped with many Catholics.

 

Christianity and it's tenants of faith show"the way" for the best possible results in life. Human nature rebels against that. It does not mean God abandons you but He makes a great deal of effort (grace) to nudge you on the path of righteousness. Ask yourself, how does a single parent end up with children? Only by disregarding what the Bible calls us to is the only possible answer. Children of single parents tend to be far more impoverished and their lives are far more complicated.
So instead of concentrating on what Faith in Jesus forbids....why not look at what Jesus Christ has encourages through His Word? The "Law of Moses" was given so that mankind can realize exactly how hopeless he is on iown accord. Jesus came so that we can recognize our failings and pursue "holiness" when we walk in the strength He gives us.

 

First off I've been married now for 36+ years. I'm the ultimate walking male white privilege model. And I don't really care that much.

But before Obergefell, these were the reasons that were told to me by gay marriage advocates. I too touched on inheritance, etc. Not an exhaustive list, but given my lack of motivation, accurate. As I was told by some attorney friends, those kinds of issues don't actually require marriage to resolve. Simple contracts will take care of it generally. The taxes issue, though, is the one issue that actually required a marriage license to claim married privileges prior to Obergefell. That's where Obergefell is important.

Second, nobody needs anything to have kids, but you do need a heterosexual act between 2 people to actually create kids. Important distinction. Existing kids have an entire legal system to protect them. Created kids have nothing, particularly given the current fascination with abortion on demand at any point before (and maybe after) birth.

The sacrament of marriage and the prohibition of abortion that comes from Catholic (and an increasingly few other Christian denominations) is designed to protect the innocent that can result from carnal relations.

And I've had to wrestle with these issues myself. My first child was born at 28 weeks gestation. Right on the ragged edge of viability 30+ years ago. My wife and I were offered the chance to transfer out of the Catholic hospital we were in if we wanted an abortion. We declined but it really focused our casual and untested attitudes at that point since things became very real very fricking fast.

It's a shame that dumb old privileged heterosexual white guys like me are currently shut out of the debate because of how we were when we were born.

But that's just how it is in this crumbling society.

 

Adoption is rebellion against God?? My daughter and son in law have as part of their will who will get their underaged kids. Is that evil?

You don't like abortion. But, if a woman gets raped and raises her baby, is that rebellion against God? Would her choice to have the baby adopted also be rebellion against God?

What is the only possible answer?

I don't believe your "holiness" is thought through.

 

All the reasons for tax breaks apply to same sex couples, especially as they raise families.

And, why does it make sense to require some couples to get state marriage rights and for others to have to hire lawyers to find ways to protect themselves? I think you're just trying to punish others, based on YOUR religion.

I'd also point out that there are a good number of denominations that marry same sex couples and allow them as members of their churches.

There are a lot of kids in this world who do not have living, responsible parents.

We're talking about state marriage. Your religion can have its own sacraments, but you can't use the law to demand others to abide your denomination's sacraments.

That is a really tough situation, and it sounds like you made the right decision. But, to consider that all such situations are like yours is just plain false. Besides, late term abortions happen when something is seriously wrong. Women who want abortions don't wait until birth to decide on abortion.

 

What does any of that have to do with anything I've said?

I get it, gay marriage is a thing now. So what?

Doesn't change anything about the Catholic church.

 

As was reported earlier in this thread, the Pope is suggesting change.

But, this isn't just about the Catholic corner of Christianity. There are a number of protestant denominations that fully include women, accept same sex members and perform marriages of same sex couples.

Frankly, the move to accept same sex couples in our society was an amazingly rapid change.

 

I never called any of that evil. I implied those instances are less than ideal, Would you admit that if something happened to your daughter and son-in law, that would be less than ideal? A women gets raped....is that less than ideal? You use tragic circumstances to throw a blanket on every situation. Don't be ridiculous.
I know a gal that married herself and was artificially inseminated. Do you think that is ideal? Seems you'd like to paint it as such! No I don't like abortion. As pointed out earlier archeologists have located the brothels in ancient Rome by the bones of male infants found in mass graves. Girls were aloud to live so they could become sex slaves. We incinerate our babies aborted. Is that justified by your lame examples?

 

??The issue is whether your statements of what is ideal is the basis for government action against these people or for organized social exlusion.

If your ENTIRE idea is to find people who may need your help, that makes sense to me.

"Sex slaves" is NOT a valid example, is that is flat out illegal, and we find and prosecute those situations.

If someone needs an abortion, the patient can express what they want to have happen.

 

bummer

 

Did you even read the OP? The Pope suggested it could be possible to bless homosexual couples. As basically a friendly act based in humility. Kind of like Jesus dining with sinners.

It's very clear though, that opening the sacrament of marriage to anything other than monogamous heterosexual couples ain't going to happen. Ever.

Protestant denominations are protestant denominations because they chose to break from the Catholic church to the extent that they pretty much have an entirely different theology. They don't even share communion.

Sorry.