Red states/areas getting more Covid-19 deaths than blue states/areas

Discussion in 'Coronavirus Pandemic Discussions' started by CenterField, Nov 8, 2021.

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  1. CenterField

    CenterField Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    https://www.yahoo.com/news/red-america-now-dying-covid-121640335.html

    The gap manifested once vaccines got available. It can't be attributed to differences in a state's/area's mean age, wealth, population density, mask mandates, etc., because this gap didn't exist before the vaccines.

    40% of Republican adults remain unvaccinated, while only 10% of Democrat adults remain unvaccinated. Newest data from Australia, brought in by member @Bowerbird in another thread, shows that the vaccinated are 16 times less likely to die of Covid-19 than the unvaccinated. So, the gap in vaccination explains the gap in deaths.

    Residents of heavily Trump counties were more than three times likelier to die from COVID in October than those in heavily Biden countries — 25 per 100,000 versus 7.8 per 100,000.

    This is puzzling because Trump championed these vaccines repeatedly. Why won't his followers believe in him regarding the vaccines, when they believe in everything else he says? I found it particularly troublesome that in a rally, Trump encouraged his followers to get vaccinated, but then got booed. It's the first time I hear of Trump being booed by his own followers.

    The inevitable conclusion is that the anti-vaxxers were more successful in misinforming people, than science in correctly informing them, and maybe Republicans are in general (with exceptions, of course) more anti-science than Democrats.
     
  2. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    be interesting to see how this plays out in future elections in swing states
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2021
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  3. CenterField

    CenterField Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    My guess is that the gap is not big enough to influence state-wide or national elections. Maybe it will influence some local races where a handful of votes will make a difference. Also, given that Covid-19 kills preferentially the elderly and the infirm, some of the people dying from it, like nursing home residents, maybe weren't voting that frequently anyway.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2021
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  4. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I would think most nursing home residents of either party has been vaccinated by now

    but agree, depends if the people that passed away even voted to begin with
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2021
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  5. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    "This is puzzling because Trump championed these vaccines repeatedly. Why won't his followers believe in him regarding the vaccines, when they believe in everything else he says? I found it particularly troublesome that in a rally, Trump encouraged his followers to get vaccinated, but then got booed. It's the first time I hear of Trump being booed by his own followers."

    Trump often takes both sides of an issue and his supporters choose which to believe, and then assume he said the other thing cause he "had" too
     
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  6. CenterField

    CenterField Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes, but he did all he could to take credit for the vaccines, including the Pfizer one that wasn't exactly his doing. He took the vaccine himself, and so did Melania. He advised his followers to get vaccinated and touted his own Warp Speed Initiative. It's a bit more than just talking from both sides of his mouth.
     
  7. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    but he hid it from the public at first and when it leaked people thought it was fake news at first, then by the time they learned it was true, their minds were already made up

    Trump got mad cause Pfizer told the truth, that they were not a part of warp speed after he had already tried to take credit
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2021
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  8. CenterField

    CenterField Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    True. Pfizer invested $2 billion of their own R&D money and they declined Warp Speed funding because they did not want the strings attached, as declared by their CEO. Pfizer has a bigger operational budget than the whole Warp Speed put together.

    Also, Trump got mad because Pfizer did not release results of their phase III trial before the election, and did not submit an FDA application before the election. That betrayed Trump's lack of familiarity with the sciences. Pfizer didn't even have the data he wanted them to release. A phase III trial is double-blind. Pfizer didn't know at all how the trial was going. Only the independent Data and Safety Monitoring Board knew who was who in the two arms of trial (active vaccine and placebo) so all that Pfizer could do was to notify the DSMB about participants getting Covid-positive, without knowing if the positive people were the vaccinated ones or the placebo ones. So once the number of infections reached the pre-determined end point, the DSMB notified the company that the results were favorable, and then and only then, Pfizer received the list of who was who, and they were able to make the calculations and diffuse the results of phase III, which then gave them the ability to apply for the EUA. Yes, it happened shortly after the election, but that's pure coincidence. They needed if I'm not mistaken 200 infected people, and they reached that number a week after the election.

    Trump and his followers thought it was some sort of conspiracy by Pfizer to hide the results before the election. They have no clue about end points, double-blind designs, and DSMBs. This conspiracy mentality and these suspicions of anything that has to do with science, is a hallmark of this kind of people. If you go and try to explain the design of a randomized double-bind placebo controlled trial to them, they think it's fake news.

    I tried to explain this to some right wing people here, at the time. It was like talking to a wall.
     
  9. independentthinker

    independentthinker Banned

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    Does Virginia and New Jersey count?
     
  10. independentthinker

    independentthinker Banned

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    The left railed against Trump mercilessly about not promoting the vaccine because if he was pro-vaccine his followers would follow him, only to find out that those who don't want to be vaccinated don't want to be vaccinated and that Trump had no influence over them. And, it was pretty much a lefty myth about who these people were. Many were blacks, the young, and many Democrats.
     
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  11. independentthinker

    independentthinker Banned

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    Even Fauci gave Trump credit for Opertaion Warp Speed.
     
  12. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    any state where Trump won by a couple thousand counts
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2021
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  13. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Trump was too little too late
     
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  14. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Trump gets credit for Operation Warp Speed

    but Pfizer was not a part of Operation Warp Speed and in fact went into trials before Operation Warp Speed was even a thing
     
  15. GrayMan

    GrayMan Well-Known Member

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    It has nothing to do with providing enough information or providing incorrect information. It has to do with a fundamental distrust in government and institutions because of a long history of mistakes and coverups regardless of who held office. It also has to do with insufficient testing of the long term effects of this vaccine. Other vaccines have been around a long time and have stood the test of time. Nothing but time and building trust can convince them to get vaccinated. Yet, Biden and the democrats aren't building trust. With their attacks, mandates, and censorship, they are destroying any chance of any trust existing ever again.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2021
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  16. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It's on you, not Biden. It's up to you to stop allowing the trumpwing to politicize the pandemic and the vaccines.

    I've never heard anyone complain about long-term effects of vaccines before now. That is a mere excuse to go on being obstinate about getting vaccinated. What does have proven long-term effects for many people is the damned virus. There is no reason to think that the vaccines will have long-term effects, but the virus demonstrably does have nasty long-term effects on survivors.

    As for the mandates, they wouldn't be required if people would stop doing what you're doing, which is being stubborn due to misguided ideology. As you've done with with so many other issues, such as climate change, so you are doing now with getting a simple vaccine. Beyond the testing that was required to get emergency use authorization many months ago, we now have those many months more of data available, and the vaccines are fully approved at this point.

    Set aside your radical politics for one ****ing minute and do the sensible thing.
     
  17. CenterField

    CenterField Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What long-term effects? Are you aware that these vaccines degrade and in 12 hours there is no trace of them left? Do you think that after more than 7.31 billion doses given around the world for one year (source: Our World in Data), we wouldn't know about some sort of long-term side effect that only exists in the fertile imagination of anti-vaxxers? The odds that there is still some unknown long-term side effect that will materialize, is virtually zero. If nothing happens in the first few weeks after vaccination, nothing else will happen.

    I mean, let me repeat it a little slower. Seven. Point. Thirty-one. BILLION. Doses. And you're all worried about unknown side effects? LOL.

    What exactly is the testing you propose, that would be better than observing what has happened to 7.31 billion doses already delivered? Are you aware that these tests traditionally involve 30,000 people, with only half of them getting the shots and placebo being given to the other half (thus, 15,000 people, two shots, 30,000 doses)? Compare this to 7.310.000.000 doses. That's 243,666 times more experience than what would have been observed in a vaccine trial. What kind of additional testing do you think we need? The testing ship has sailed.

    So is the distrust addressed at our government, as in, the USA's? What to make of the other 209 countries and autonomous entities in the world, that all have approved these vaccines too, for their populations? Is there a vast conspiracy of the 210 governments on Earth to... do what, exactly? I mean, governments that differ enormously in ideology, style, alliances, goals and objectives, continental locations, geopolitics... are they all somehow colluding to fool the whole planet's population into accepting these vaccines?

    In tune with the above - and it wouldn't be any more absurd than the above, because the above is absurd enough - next someone will say that there is a microchip there, installed by the One-Government World Order to dominate the world. Is that what you think?

    I hate to break the news to you, but George Soros, Bill Gates, and the 210 planetary governments put the microchips into ivermectin, not the vaccines. Haha. They knew you all wouldn't want the vaccines and would flock to ivermectin, so that's where they put the microchips. Genius, huh?

    Beware. The microchips will make you turn into a transgender. That's what the vast conspiracy from all 210 world governments wants: a population entirely made of transgender people, so that the government officials can engage in pedophilia with the population and other horrific acts; the microchips in ivermectin are also the Mark of the Beast that changes your DNA, and makes you magnetic so that you will attract the Devil to your location.

    But you can defeat them. Don't take ivermectin. Take the vaccine instead. No microchips in the vaccines.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2021
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  18. Bullseye

    Bullseye Well-Known Member

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    Why is the death of your fellow Americans a Blue vs Red issue? Shame.
     
  19. independentthinker

    independentthinker Banned

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    Things would have been no different if he had asked his followers to vaccinate sooner.
     
  20. independentthinker

    independentthinker Banned

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    Without Covid entering the picture, this stuff would have dragged on for years and years.
     
  21. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I think if Trump had not played down the virus early on, and had pushed the vaccine more, things would have been different

    Trump made this political

    it was actually being handled appropriately by Pence before Trump got involved
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2021
  22. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    what stuff?
     
  23. independentthinker

    independentthinker Banned

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    That's just not true. Anti-vaxxers are anti-vaxxers. And, a lot of those are blacks, the young, and Democrats. The left refuse to acknowledge this because it doesn't fit into their agenda.
     
  24. independentthinker

    independentthinker Banned

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    The Mrna vaccines.
     
  25. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    yes, agree, Trump would not of convinced blacks to get the vaccine, in fact he scared them when there was rumor of him testing the vaccine on them first

    to be fair to Trump, this was due to false claims that racism was why blacks were having more cases of covid
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2021

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