Religious or Philosophical justification for the death penalty

What reason does a New Testament Christians have to advocate for the death penalty? If Jesus said he who is without sin cast the first stone, then does religious belief take backseat?
Huckabee, Pat Robertson, Scalia, and many other Christian leaders advocate for the death penalty.

 

None

Because they are false priests. Thankfully "(t)oday, the Roman Catholic Church and most global Protestant traditions oppose capital punishment." Unfortunately "most conservative U.S.-based Protestant traditions support it." (http://civilliberty.about.com/od/capitalpunishment/qt/dp_christianity.htm)
We can but hope that these misguided fellow-Christians will eventually denounce their rather unchristian desires for revenge.

 

The only time I can say I unenthusiastically tolerate the death penalty is in cases of civil unrest due to a cult of personality surrounding an individual. If Hitler hadn't done it himself, I think the death penalty would be justified--not for revenge, but to eliminate a figurehead around whom many others acted contrary to civil order. Saddam Hussain's hanging fits the "to be tolerated" bill also, in my opinion (although hanging is pretty gross).

 

Life is the most valuable thing to anyone on this Earth. It is something you must enjoy as much of as possible, because when you're dead, that's it, there's nothing else after, so you better enjoy it wihle it lasts. When you kill someone, you take away their life, all the things they could have done and enjoyed, and erase them from existence. You have destroyed the most valuable thing we have - no punishment but your own death can possibly equte to such a crime.

 

Christianity does not favor the death penalty unless you pull from the scripture (Matt 5:17) where Jesus says that he is not trying to abolish the old laws. Those old laws have plenty of death penalties in them.

Philosophically, the death penalty can only be justified if it somehow prevents the death of innocents or works to protect society.

Which in the end is the real meat of this issue.

 

DO you mean like the religious idiots that think they are protected by 'god' and willfully lie out the gazoo?

no False witness is a command, so I can see how the judgment could be harsh to liars, that just will not stop.

The history of how catholics tortured people that they thought were bewitched is already written, imagine how bad it is when the judgment comes back.

 

Does this have anything to do with what I posted, or is it just another manifestation of your adoration for me?

 

I don't think that's an unreasonable position to take, but do you consider yourself a Christian? And if so, how do you reconcile it with what the OP pointed out Jesus said?

 

Context in Biblical references matter--read the story in which that one line is stated. That's how I reconcile it. The same justice should be applied to me if I was guilty of the same crime.

 

We could had studied Hitler - alive he had been thousands times more worthful. And Nazis could had seen that he's only a normal human being like everyone else. In case of Saddam Husein - who was for a very long time of his life also an ally of the USA - lots of people in the world had the feeling the US-government tried ot hide something. In both cases I don't see any reason for a form of extended self defense. The prisons today are save.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOtfdOLyaPY

 

There is still a cult of personality around Hitler--if he were still alive after the end of the war, don't you think advocates would have a rallying point? I certainly could be convinced otherwise; I think execution is barbaric.

As for S. Hussein, the country was in turmoil with an interim government. Prisons were absolutely NOT secure, and the Ba'athist party was certainly unstable and seeking a counter-revolution (see Saddamism in the article about Ba'athism

I think the situation was unstable enough for execution to be considered morally justified. But hey...convince me otherwise--as I said, I'm very much NOT an advocate of the death penalty, but there are some (very) rare circumstances that I can see it may be justified.

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Where do you draw the line? When does a former dictator/political figure become turmoil-causing enough to justify his execution?
Were the Nazis justified when they executed Stauffenberg? After all he caused considerable turmoil within the Nazi-system.
Who is a political hero and who isn't is in the eye of the beholder. That these days Stauffenberg is revered as a hero won't bring him and others back to live.

Imho there is no justification for the death-penalty for anybody, ever.

 

I cannot think of any good reason to support the death penatly as a Christian

 

instead of justifying ones own exception to the rule, perhaps he/she should become more spiritual and closer to god and accept his rules.

 

I think who works for peace and good will is clear. I may not agree with assassination attempts, but those who aim to end tyranny and genocide...I think God may have mercy on the heart that acts in good faith. Secondly, as I said, I DO NOT "support" the death penalty in any way. I said in sume cases I can "unenthusiastically tolerate it." This means that I view it as morally neutral though not the optimal situation, and ONLY in situations where social unrest leading to further deaths and possibly a worse situation is it possibly justified.

In our well-heeled, affluent, and stable societies, I agree. The whole world is not like our small corners.

 

I do agree with the death penalty in cases where the crime was heinious, murderer shows no remorse and would kill again. I think it respects the value of life. If you take it and would take it again---you receive the ultimate penalty.

The Old and New Testaments are both important.

 

Experiment in thoughts: If "we" had burned Hitler in 1932 on a stake - what would we know about him today? I guess: The church would be seen today as a criminal organisaion because she had murdered an innocent human being. On the other side: Today some people see in her a criminal organisation because she fought not [good enough] against Hitler.

Self-defense and extended self defense are a justifiable reason to kill someone - but what happens in the reality? Example: The Holy Father and the Austrian Emperor were the only responsible persons during the time of World War 1 who tried to stop this war seriously - everyone else who was responsible laughed about their naivity - and this laughter was the same time the self fullfilling prophecy of the mass murder world war 1 (what was also the main cause for world war 2). Even today some people are thinking Poland did really attack Germany under Hitler - what's nonsense. Similiar situation in the war of the USA against the Iraq. A so called "preemptive strike" is not self-defense. ...

The argument "[extended] self-defense" is a very diffcult argument and it seems it opens sometimes the gates of hell. And if you think about the murderer Cain - why signed god Cain? He made a sign on him because no one shoud kill him or do him anything bad - although he had murdered his own brother. Seems to me: god is not a moralist. His justice is sometimes more than we can understand - maybe because his justice is the justice of love. He always gives a new chance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6YmO0A-tds

 

So your point is that no matter what the Church is going to be seen negatively by some people? I would say it's not the Church's place to assassinate people. This issue is a political issue--not religious. I don't understand bringing in the Church as the agent of the death penalty.

The US did not hang Saddam, Iraq's interim government did. You are going beyond the issue of the thread--it is not about if the war in Iraq was justified, it's about the death penalty and I said Saddam's execution under the circumstances at the time may be justified.

Cain was not a threat to a whole society.

I agree with that, but I also believe that God acts through the actions of people--inaction is sometimes disobedience also. In the story of Jonah, what if the sailers refused to throw Jonah overboard into the waves of the stormy sea? They HAD to do it. Also, ultimately, God used the "death penalty" for our Salvation. I can't see how he would be entirely against it when he used the political situation in Jerusalem (as starting this very day PALM SUNDAY!) to bring about the greatest Mercy known to man as seen in the celebration of Holy Week culminating at "Good" Friday (Good, because the Death of Christ-and his Resurrection-redeems mankind)--but that day is the day of Jesus execution.

 

Short: It was wrong to kill Saddam Husein - as it is always wrong to kill a human being. Some people are for example thinking George W. Bush should be executed because he broke international laws. They say: He's still dangerous - some call him "Nazi" - and he has a lot of influence in the USA. I'm sure in the world would exist lots of lawyers and judges who would sign a warrant of execution in his case. What about if some people in the world would do the same with Bush what some Americans did with Osama bin Laden? How do you like to end such growing spirals of violence where everyone kills everyone on good reasons while others are thinking this reasons are bad reasons? It makes for example not really a big difference for oneselve to be killed on good reasons or to be killed on bad reasons, isn't it? Good reasons - bad reasons - no death penalty. That's the best way for everyone and the whole world.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyZUgTQVPkY

 

We are Cain.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9vh-tSZCoI

 

I agree. However, sometimes things that are "wrong" for individuals actually work to bring about God's plan. Pharaohs heart was hardened, but it was for the greater glory of God.


ROM 9
[13] As it is written, "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated."
[14] What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means!
[15] For he says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion."
[16] So it depends not upon man's will or exertion, but upon God's mercy.
[17] For the scripture says to Pharaoh, "I have raised you up for the very purpose of showing my power in you, so that my name may be proclaimed in all the earth."
[18] So then he has mercy upon whomever he wills, and he hardens the heart of whomever he wills.
[19] You will say to me then, "Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?"
[20] But who are you, a man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, "Why have you made me thus?"
[21] Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for beauty and another for menial use?
[22] What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience the vessels of wrath made for destruction,
[23] in order to make known the riches of his glory for the vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory,

You keep ignoring my caveat that states death penalty MAY be tolerable in situations of CIVIL UNREST. You are describing assassinations and that is an entirely different thing than the death penalty.

Do you not have faith that God is in control no matter what we creatures do?

 

Jesus was killed by use of the death penalty. Should that have not happened?

God is in control.

 

If something is wrong then it's wrong. It's completly crazy to say something is wrong but the will of god. God is rational.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObWNrkMT5dc

 

One more reason to be against death penalty.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZOr2A8bl84

 

The NT reports that two killers died with Jesus JUSTIFIABLY, as one of them said at that time.

What the NT teaches is that we need do the things which protect the lambs from these kiler wolves, so the issue become practical, NOT philosophical: