Russia Fires Back With Its Own Evidence

I do not see much difference. But:

(cur | prev) 15:36, 21 July 2014‎ 95.107.237.179 (talk)‎ . . (74,365 bytes) (+1)‎ . . (→‎Specifications (Su-25/Su-25K, late production))

See comparation: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sukhoi_Su-25&diff=617859201&oldid=617857386

Did you mean another change? And then who is the liar?

 

You really need to keep up to speed by availing yourself of the issues that have superseded the flawed report and the narrative that informed it:

http://www.medialens.org/index.php/...chemical-weapons-attacks-in-ghouta-syria.html

 

Sorry, I was not quite right. Now I read careful.

It's changed from 7000 to 10000:

(cur | prev) 15:36, 21 July 2014‎ 95.107.237.179 (talk)‎ . . (74,365 bytes) (+1)‎ . . (→‎Specifications (Su-25/Su-25K, late production))

IP Address 95.107.237.179
Location ALBANIA, TIRANE, TIRANA
Latitude & Longitude 41.327500, 19.818890 (41°19'39"N 19°49'8"E)

Next changes from 10000 to 7000:

(cur | prev) 15:41, 21 July 2014‎ 46.172.233.225 (talk)‎ . . (74,364 bytes) (-1)‎ . . (Undid revision 617859201 by 95.107.237.179 (talk))

IP Address 46.172.233.225
Location UKRAINE, POLTAVS'KA OBLAST', KREMENCHUK
Latitude & Longitude 49.097250, 33.419720 (49°5'50"N 33°25'11"E)

There are two Ukrainian official source confirming the maximum altitude of the Su-25 to 10km.

State Enterprise "UKROBORONSERVICE". Official site. http://uos.ua/produktsiya/aviakosmicheskaya-tehnika/84-cy-25
Kharkiv University of Air Force named Kozhedub, Ukraine. GP "Ivchenko-Progress", Zaporozhye, Ukraine. Designing aerospace aircraft http://irbis-nbuv.gov.ua/cgi-bin/ir...OAD=1&Image_file_name=PDF/aktit_2013_7_11.pdf

 

yeah. And then correction (7000) was made equal to official site of Su-25, yeah?
So?

 

Did you mean the official website UkrObronService?

It's nothing. War of bloggers is stupid job. There is no indication which model of aircraft accompanied Boeing.

Facts:
1. Per minute at the point of accident an unidentified object was detected at an altitude of 10 km and at a speed of 400km/h. This object remains on the radar and after the crash.
2. Ukrainian Defense Ministry stated that at this point was not their aircraft. Significant evidence is not presented.

Versions:
1. It was a aircraft of another state (Poland, Russia, Belorussia, etc.)
2. It was not a aircraft, but a UFO, for example.
3. Ukrainian Defense Ministry is lier.

There are other options?

 

dig google cache then
And anyway, at first wikipage was changed to make altitude heigher. That's all I wanted to say

 

True. Russian wikipedia changed more than 10 times. The stupidity of people, who are doing it, always amazes me.

 

Now you do not mistake?



Instead of "Separatists" on SAM was written "Ukraine".

 

No,
This witness fools around with you.
This board stands in Lviv.

 

Oh, you saying, Ukrop?

Because here I have a video with Su-25 flying at least 8000 meters high.
[video=youtube;GY_2NoHdNso]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GY_2NoHdNso[/video]

http://www.airwar.ru/enc/attack/su25.html
Практический потолок, м 7000-10000

 

I heard that it is Vinnitsa.

Here I can say that Ukrainian ministers addicted to watching fake movies online, as their US and RF counterparts.

 

It is really nice we have social networks. I enjoyed SBU humilating itself with propaganda, being debunked hours after it was posted (just like with the "rebel BUK" photo or "intercepted talks").


Here you can see another example, this time Ukraine's online army humilating itself, posting Ukrop servicemen as "rebel".

 

Link: http://rt.com/news/174496-malaysia-crash-russia-questions/

Russia has posed 10 more questions for the US regarding MH17. A lot of them are re-phrasings from yesterday's release. There are a couple of specifics brought out, though.

First, Russia states specifically where the photo of the truck carrying the BUK, which was supposedly on its way back to Russia, was taken.

Secondly, they give an exact time frame for when the US spy satellite was over East Ukraine.

There's also a brief statement from the US State Department.

 

discussed
http://www.politicalforum.com/showthread.php?t=366175&p=1064097421#post1064097421

 

Lies have short legs, but politicians should be willing to look carefully. They rather enjoy propaganda.

 

I bet we never hear one word about any of these Russian charges and counter charges on any of the American TV networks.

 

845. Another way to weaken the Euro (7/21/2014)

The energy supply of Europe is heavily dependent on Russia. About one third to 40% of its natural gas and oil are imported from Russia. One important gas pipe is inside Ukraine. If there is a turmoil in Ukraine, the gas supply to Europe will be affected. The economy of Europe would be weakened, so be the Euro. That’s why we saw an upheaval in Ukraine.

Here EU used to be a follower of the US. I think the Europeans have sensed the coming danger the US will bring to them. German is a major power of EU. Recently, German has twice revealed two US spy cases and eventually expelled a CIA intelligence official. That’s unusual.

I would say German has sensed (or with its state ability, having the intelligence) that US would sacrifice European’s economy by creating a crisis in Europe. It could be terror attack; or war. The deportation of US intelligence official is just a warning or protest of disagreement. Several days later, Malaysia airliner MH17 was down in Ukraine.

 

So far, I've seen 2 brief mentions in stories online, and those mentions were at the end of stories smearing Putin.

I'm still waiting for news of the promised big sanctions from Europe. The big meeting was today. It's now nighttime in Europe and I haven't seen any news of new sanctions. You would think the press would report on them immediately since they were much anticipated.

 

Even if we did find shrapnel, I don't understand what use it's going to be since both sides are accused of using the same weapon system. It would be sort of like saying you found an AK-47 bullet when both sides are accused of using AK-47s. What's the point?

 

SU-25 is an assault plane. It's primary job is to kill those on the ground. So it doesn't have a need to go further than 7000. Although they CAN go to 10000 m. The discussion of altitude of SU-25 which was at the site of attack and a possibility of it to shoot down MH-17 is clearly ended with a possibillity of SU-25 to carry air-to-air missiles. SU-25 if received a misssion to kill a plane making the image that it was done by surface to air missile would better attack from a lower altitude rather than going to pursue the fast liner on the altitudes that it was not made for.

The possibility of MH-17 to be intercepted by SU-25 is positive. And it is much more probable rather than a strike from an only rebels' BUK which fired a rocket at a limit of theoretical usage with absolutely no use from it.

I myself think think that the job was firstly ordered to ukrainian BUK which failed and then SU-25 finished the plane and controlled that the liner fell down and noone remained alive. If anyone would an assault SU-25 would easily destroyed this someone. Of what I see in the photos there were lots of rockets hitting MH-17. The one got into the rear and took off the tail. The other obviously went into the pilot cab. How many others were there - needs to be identified by comission.

 

This user is in mine ignore list.

 

The Euros are dumber than I thought. Or maybe just too weak to stand up to US pressure. Probably it's both.

~~~~~~~~~~

Link: http://en.ria.ru/russia/20140722/191119037/EU-Eyes-New-Sanctions-Against-Russia-on-July-24.html

BRUSSELS, July 22 (RIA Novosti) – The European Commission will present new sanctions against Moscow targeting Russia's financial and defense sectors on July 24, EU foreign policy chief Catherine Ashton said Tuesday.

“We’ve asked the Commission and External Action Service to prepare proposals for action including an access to capital markets, defense, dual-use goods and sensitive technologies, including in the energy sector. These proposals will be presented on Thursday,” Ashton said after today's EU foreign ministers meeting in Brussels.

Following the meeting, German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier said that the EU agreed to step up its pressure on the sides not contributing to the settlement of Ukraine crisis.

“We want to increase pressure on those who are not willing to take part in resolving the current crisis,” the minister said.

After the meeting, the EU foreign ministers made three major decisions, according to Steinmeier.

First of all, the EU decided to expand the blacklist targeting those “supporting Russian decision makers” and responsible for “the destabilization of eastern Ukraine.” Secondly, the Council agreed to accelerate the preparation of the sanctions list. Thirdly, the EU foreign ministers requested the Commission to propose additional restrictive measures, including in the field of sensitive technology, Steinmeier said.

Earlier this year, the United Stated and the European Union have already imposed targeted sanctions against a number of Russian officials and companies as a response to Crimea’s reunification with Russia.

After the Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 crash in eastern Ukraine, Washington has been pushing the EU to implement further sanctions against Moscow.

Russian Foreign Ministry has repeatedly called the language of sanctions counterproductive and said these measures would have a boomerang effect on European economies.

President Vladimir Putin said the new sanctions required a careful look but warned they could bring the US-Russian ties to a dead end.

 

russian pressure

 

Shrapnel is different.The one from air to ait looks like hooks. The one from surface to air - is metal balls. 10 to 10 mm. The quantity of explosives is different. The range of fire is different. Quantity of elements is different. Method of targeting is different. Basically everything possible is different. And what is most different is the difference between aviation cannon and surface to air missile.