Russia Fires Back With Its Own Evidence

especiallly for you, Max
(and other russians)

http://einara.livejournal.com/273223.html
this link explains everything (in russian language)

 

It's because the type of weapon used is still not assured. The BUK missile system is thought to be the weapon used because it is the only system in the area that could reach 33,000 feet. The next step would be to determine where it was launched from. We know most of the area where the plane came down is controlled by Russia separatist.

 

From RT:

Unnamed US officials are telling Associated Press that their intelligence suggests Malaysia plane shot down by separatist, no link to Russia found.

DETAILS TO FOLLOW

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This wonderful analyst shows the following picture from a youtube video from Torez and compares two absolutely different piictures with different buildings and locations marking to the dummies what they should look at. Which is a shop (the design is corporate) and an advertismentt on the wall.


Nice analysis. Better than kievan junta can make. But I prefer to look at the main things first. and only once I make sure that they make sense - I look at the details.

 

A bit more from RT:

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Unnamed US officials are telling Associated Press that their intelligence suggests Malaysia plane shot down by anti-Kiev militia, no link to Russia found.

Officials believe that the passenger aircraft was intercepted by an SA-11 surface-to-air missile, which was fired by Ukrainian militia members. One official said the likeliest explanation was the aircraft was shot down in error, an assertion that seem to be bolstered by the previous downing of 12 Ukrainian military aircraft by militants in the region.

Intelligence suggests that, although the US maintains that Russia "created the conditions" that led to the incident, officials were not aware of the presence of any Russians during the missile launch, and would not confirm that the missile crew was trained in Russia.

The crash of the airliner last week with 298 passengers aboard has only exacerbated the row between the US, European powers and Russia over the developing situation in eastern Ukraine.

The aircraft’s black boxes were turned over to Malaysian authorities late Monday night by Ukrainian militia. Access to the debris field, which is located within the restive Donetsk People’s Republic, has been limited and rumors have run rampant regarding the conduct of militia in the area.

One official said that, regarding as to who precisely fired the missile, "we don't know a name, we don't know a rank and we're not even 100 percent sure of a nationality." The official added that "there is not going to be a Perry Mason moment here," referring to any likely absence of definitive conclusions.

Officials noted that their inquiry relied partly on social media postings, citing specifically video of a missile launcher purported to be a Buk system battery crossing into Russian territory, and appearing to be missing a missile. Following questions, intel officials admitted they had not verified the video’s origin or content.

The Tuesday briefing seemed to be a sharp departure from comments made by US President Barack Obama a day prior, who stated that the Malaysia Airlines aircraft had been “shot down over territory controlled by Russian-backed separatists” that had been both armed with anti-aircraft weapons and trained by Russia.

 

Nobody in the American mainstream media will carry one word about Russia's counter-charges, you can bet your last dollar on that! All we're going to hear is more anti-Russian hysteria while various self-annointed war hawks rattle sabers and talk about chastising the Russians. I'm a far-Right Conservative, but all the war-drum blather coming out of John McCain and John Bolton make me sick. I don't doubt for one minute that both Russia AND the United States are spinning this whole sad story for the best effect, but all these morons who are chewing at the straps about "getting tough" with Russia and giving Putin ultimatims should be damned careful what they wish for....

****ing around with Vladimir Putin and the Russian military isn't going to be like ****ing around in Vietnam, ****ing around in the Balkans, ****ing around in Iraq, or ****ing around in Afghanistan. Russians today are NOT the broken, defeated people they were in 1990. They are strong, and getting stronger every day. They are proud, and supposedly approximately 80% of them support Vladimir Putin. And if that doesn't impress us, then we should at least have the wits to remember this -- they have a great deal of modern weaponry of many different kinds, including many intercontinental ballistic missiles carrying hydrogen bombs. I grew up in the "Cold War"... maybe it was already over by the time most forum posters came along. To refresh their memories, I hope they take a look at the detonation of this Russian weapon, the largest in the history of the world: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjnm3V0xYjI

We ALL need to get over this bull**** sword-rattling nonsense and just CALM DOWN!

 

Pollycy, I'm 58, so I do remember. We are playing a VERY dangerous game poking sticks at the Russian Bear.

It seems now the US is starting to backtrack on its rhetoric since the Russian evidence was released. Of course, they are still clinging to parts and will never admit being wrong. That's okay ....... we'll see by actions/inactions just how much effect this Russian evidence is having.

 

You were a little bit short on how much the Russians support Putin. It's 83% and on an up trend. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2014/07/21/in-russia-everybody-loves-putin/

We can bull(*)(*)(*)(*) ourselves all we want. The truth is that the Russians have a leader who loves his country and we in American don't! Putin would fight to the death for Russia, but Obama? He won't even defend the southern border of this country from illegal aliens. I would like for just one Obama lover to tell me I'm wrong but then also tell me why I'm wrong. It won't happen.

 

Senior US officials said intelligence supports the theory that rebels shot down MH17 “by mistake”, but that there is “no evidence of direct Russian government involvement“. They said Russia maintains a “training facility“ for rebels to learn how to operate heavy weaponry in the country’s south-west. A press conference was held this afternoon by the US office of the director of national intelligence (ODNI), at which select reporters were briefed on US intelligence with regard to MH17, the SA-11 missile system suspected, and rebels’ and Russians’ alleged participation. Details are expected soon, but a report from the AP has come out saying that “senior US intelligence officials say they have no evidence of direct Russian government involvement” in the downing of MH17. They say the passenger jet was likely felled by an SA-11 surface-to-air missile fired by Russian-backed separatists in eastern Ukraine and that Russia “created the conditions” for the downing by arming the separatists. They said they didn’t know if any Russians were present at the missile launch, and they wouldn’t say that the missile crew was trained in Russia. The briefing underlined the theory espoused by most of a senior official at the briefing, and by most analysts since plane first crashed: rebels “most likely shot down the plane by mistake”.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/23/mh17-rebels-likely-shot-down-plane-by-mistake-live-updates

 

If the US is now saying Russia had no direct involvement, should we not take that to mean Russia didn't supply a BUK system to the rebels?

If that much is true, then what Ukraine has said about none of its systems missing must mean. . . . . . .

 

I stand corrected. It's amazing really, but I guess the Russians are up off of their knees now. Nobody is ever going to get them down again:
http://www.gallup.com/poll/173597/russian-approval-putin-soars-highest-level-years.aspx
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_world_/2014/07/22/guess_what_putin_is_more_popular_than_ever.html

Meanwhile, the popularity of our own President Jive-ass is down to 43.2%: http://www.gallup.com/poll/174017/o...agrss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=syndication

Frankly, I'm surprised it's even as high as that. Nobody buy Obama's most devoted asskissers can make excuses for him any more. I think the way that he has totally neglected the whole illegal alien crisis has finally shown even the most retarded hyperliberal Obama devotees the LIGHT.

 

It seems US department toned down Russia bashing: WASHINGTON (AP) — Senior U.S. intelligence officials said Tuesday that Russia was responsible for "creating the conditions" that led to the shooting down of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17, but they offered no evidence of direct Russian government involvement. This is a good question, who created those conditions. Poroshenko? EU and USA by instigating the coup in Kiev?

 

Of Course Russia Has a Nonsensical Explanation For MH 17

 

The whole world is watching East Ukraine, today the US says there was no direct involvement by Russia in the MH17 incident, but we still see this crap in the media?

Of course, the source is the Ukraine government and the US is parroting it like gospel.

The charges are ridiculous, especially considering just how closely Russia is now being watched.
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Link: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...telligence-russia-putin-separatists/13015791/

WASHINGTON —Russia has shown no sign of backing off its shipments of arms to separatists in Ukraine despite allegations that the rebels shot down a civilian airline with weapons provided by Russia, according to three senior intelligence officials.

As recently as Tuesday, Russia sent rebels another 20 tanks to separatists, the officials said. The information came from Ukraine's government but is consistent with independent U.S. intelligence assessments, they said. They added that the Ukraine Security and Defense Council concluded that separatists in one city, Luhansk, had received tanks, surface missiles and vehicles from Russia this week.

The intelligence officials briefed reporters Tuesday to counter Russia's and separatists' denials of involvement. The officials spoke on the condition they not be identified by name so they could discuss intelligence issues.

 

Direct involvement, no, indirect involvement, absolutely. The only ones shooting down aircraft in that region were the separatists. They shot down other aircraft in the region and now it is 'inconceivable' (only in propaganda) that they could shoot down the airliner.

 

It's pretty easy to keep public opinion in check when you're an authoritarian tyrant in a nation without a free press. Germans loved Hitler too.

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No they are terrorists opposed to a duly elected democratic government who are as proven by the neutral UN observers are committing ethnic cleansing and mass murder against ethnic Ukrainians.

 

The Russians are claiming it was an SU-25 whose max ceiling is far less than the 33,000 feet which the Malaysian airliner was operating at, I posted the actual specs from Sukhoi as well who likewise puts the max ceiling at 23,000 feet/7,000 m but I guess they're in on your little conspiracy too. Your assertions regarding unverified stills provided by Russian propagandists who are clearly involved in a cover up to conceal their part in this war crime being "fact" is in actuality unverified BS which no other nation is substantiating.

 

(*)(*)(*)(*)ing spare us your bull(*)(*)(*)(*), 7,000 m is the correct ceiling without external armament, it is even less if they are carrying air to air missiles. Frankly your assertion is FOS but don't take my word for it let's ask Sukhoi themselves whose website clearly states that the max altitude of the SU-25 without pods is 7km or appx. 23,000 feet which is 10,000 feet below the altitude which the Malaysian airliner was traveling:

http://translate.google.com/transla.../search?q=http://sukhoi.org/&biw=1025&bih=457

 

You blown away too, like Avakov and Kartapolov. If I understand correctly you have accurate evidence based on fake photos and videos. Ok. Do you know all details? Who author of this photos and videos? Are there any witnesses? When it happened? In 2014 or, may be, in 2012? No answers.

As I say yearly, Minister Avakov use fake video as evidence and it is a fact. Stupid General Kartapolov could not refrain from sarcasm.

 

Provide evidence that there was a US military satellite over the area at the same time. Furthermore; we know for a fact that the Russian terrorists have the BUK systems as well so saying that there were BUK systems in the area does nothing to bolster the argument that it was the Russian terrorists.




A launcher similar to the Buk missile system was seen by Associated Press journalists earlier Thursday near the eastern Ukrainian town of Snizhne, which is held by the rebels.


http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/storie...ME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2014-07-17-11-46-31

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Yep no evidence presented by you that the Ukrainians have provided fake photos or fake videos whatsoever.

 

One would hope people understand that these are missile "Launchers"....which need missiles to launch. One might also expect people to note that there are multiple possible missiles to launch, that have various capabilities.

These SAM systems are capable of going from 100 to 100,000 ft., depending on what they are loaded with.

 

From RT:

Link: http://rt.com/news/173628-malaysian-plane-crash-ukraine/

Moscow has handed over to the European Union the Ministry of Defense’s monitoring data on the Malaysia Airlines MH17 crash in eastern Ukraine, Russian envoy to the EU Vladimir Chizhov said.

The documents, which are in both Russian and English, were sent “to all the interested parties,” he told journalists in Brussels, as quoted by RIA Novosti. Russia hopes the investigation of the tragedy will be “truly unbiased, independent and international,” as called for by the UN Security Council resolution unanimously adopted Monday, Chizhov said.

“I’m surprised by statements made by certain European representatives,” he said. Even European Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso – who is on a visit in Brazil – “voiced certainty that the plane, as he said, was shot down by 'separatists.'”According to the Russian diplomat, attempts to foresee the results of an investigation “can only be considered as an attempt to put pressure on the probe.”

“I hope that will not happen,” Chizhov said

 

Shouldn't the USA sweep the crap from their own door-step first, before they start pointing fingers at Putin and Russia?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_Tonkin_incident

 

Are you robot? I already answer you that I saw about "unidentified object" not about Su-25... It can be Su-26, Su-27, Su-29, F-15, F-117 Stealth etc.

At least there are two Ukrainian official source confirming the maximum altitude of the Su-25 to 10km:

State Enterprise "UKROBORONSERVICE". Official site. http://uos.ua/produktsiya/aviakosmic...hnika/84-cy-25
Kharkiv University of Air Force named Kozhedub, Ukraine. GP "Ivchenko-Progress", Zaporozhye, Ukraine. Designing aerospace aircraft http://irbis-nbuv.gov.ua/cgi-bin/irb..._2013_7_11.pdf