The King of France was broke and heavily indebted to the Templars. The Pope knew where is bread was buttered and colluded with the King to steal the Templars assets under the charge of Heresy. This was common practise by the Church for hundreds of years.. they did the same thing to the Cathars and Jews and anyone else that was vunerable. The extracted confessions are hardly reliable given the obsene torture techniques used to extract them.
I believe you are right. And no I haven't read it, and it is actually on my computer, LOL! I've just read bits and pieces. I don't think most people know that Sheol is the place of - ALL - the dead for the ancient Hebrew. "Hell" is a mishmash from other cultures.
My response was still not an emotional one. Next. That wasn't in any way what I said, but it's handy anyway. Are you suggesting this is what I said or are you accusing me of saying it? Especially when people choose to be anal about them. I'll keep it in mind to be on target with exact and precise terms and verbiage from here on out if it pleases you though. I sincerely wish I had a nicer way to put this, and I understand on your end it may not seem that way but people often seem to not notice how they sound to others and to be perfectly frank you seem to be stroking your own ego in a variety of ways and places in just the handful of posts I've read here. I could be wrong on this so I'll give the benefit of the doubt. Further, I hope my first impressions are wrong about you and I hope we can both look forward to some interesting exchanges. Thank you.
KsigMason- Im not gonna quote your posts, they are too long. Okay we are getting somewhere, as far as the templars buying up undeveloped land, and developing it. Creating banks, and acquiring vast amounts of wealth. And about the map. Sorry, man, but doesnt it seem odd that the pentagram is "missing" 1 street? could it be a secret passage? lots of those exist in the freemasons, after all, they were excellent at building... Or less far fetched, maybe in the 300 or so years since DC was designed, a road got removed? who knows... Im not opposed to the main bulk of Freemasons, they are after all, human beings the same as any other "bulk" of any other organization. What I personally oppose is the people RUNNING Freemasonry. Take for example the Grand Master Albert Pike - check into the stuff he wrote in his book "Morals and Dogma" which was handed to Freemasons up until th 1970's. Now that was one evil man! But because the leaders are evil, it doesn't mean the bulk of the members (what is it 3 Million Freemasons in the USA?) even know whats going on in the top echelons. Saying "all Freemasons are evil" is like saying "all voters are evil", whilst they predominantly vote for evil and corrupt parties, most people don't know these organizations and parties are evil and corrupt, so then we get Freemasons asking "hey why do you hate me" when its not the case. "When the Provincial Grand Lodge for the United States of America of the Royal Order of Scotland was instituted, "Sir and General Albert Pike" was named the Provincial Grand Master, ad vitam, in a warrant dated October 4, 1877, from Edinburough, Scotland." Source Heres a picture of Albert Pike in Free Mason Regalia Now, to find the link between Freemasons, and the Knights Templar. Basically, the ancient Knights emplar formed as Christian Crusaders in the late 1000's. And the FreeMason Knights Templar Fraternity Formed in the 11th century... As a Christian Fraternity. Coincidence? Well the Ancient "non-related" Knights Templar were dispanded by Pope Clement V in 1312. Poof "gone" just like that... The VAST wealth of the Knights Templar "gone?" No, the story continues, The FreeMason Knights Templar Fraternity still exists, yet all evidence of their connection to the ancient Knights Templar "doesnt exist." Im throwing up the BS flag. It doesn't make sense... Logically, how does The vast wealth of the Knights Templar just disappear, and not transfer to the fraternity that bears the same name, within the FreeMasons? Source Steven Dafoe's article See Ksig, i told you, this research would leave more questions than answers... This thread in no way is an attack towards you. I actually respect your Defensive stance. Im not done researching...
http://www.crossroad.to/articles2/006/freemasons.htm Reason for the Huge statue of Albert Pike in D.C: http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/scottishriteproject.htm I know this one is a wikipedia article, but it is heavily cited, and illustrates many valid points. So dont dismiss it. I am posting it merely for the citing: Knights Templar Legends
You do need to do that...they are long. In fact I had to break up my responses so they'd fit. You can just quote what sentences you need or make reference to them. Templary history is an obsession/hobby of mine. I've always loved Crusader history and Grail lore. That has been brought to my attention many times, but I cannot find any record of any tunnel that stays true along that line. I even plotted out the metro lines to see, but to no avail. My question to this question would be, what would be the purpose? Why make a start except on one leg? Do you honestly think that George Washington was a Satanist who wanted his goat-head pentagram on the nation's capitol? Plus, George was the only one tied to the designs of the street that was the only confirmed Freemason. This is extremely likely as the original designs have to change to accommodate the population and transportation styles. Anyone who governs, rules, reigns, presides, or manages the Order, in whatever branch of the fraternity, does so at the behest of the voting members. Every one of our leaders is elected for a time and even then the duties of the presiding officer are set within the Constitution and By-Laws, also set in place by the voting members. Our legislation is put in place by the votes of the members, and even some decisions of the presiding officer must get the approval of the voting members. Then there is the Jurisprudence Committee who is an oversight on if the decisions conflict with any regulations and rules of the Constitution and By-Laws. To break it down even further, every Grand Lodge (Blue Lodge) is sovereign and independent unto itself and relies on mutual recognition of other Grand Lodges. Now let's bring in the appendant bodies such as the Shriners or York Rite. Those bodies must have permission of the Grand Lodge to operate within that specific jurisdiction and be recognized as a legitimate Masonic order. The decisions made at these levels does not affect other appendant bodies or the Blue Lodge. To make a clarification, the degrees and titles one may attain is only applicable to that body. I'm the Senior Warden of the Templar Commandery, but at the Blue Lodge level that means nothing and I've never been introduced as such. I only ever get introduced by the titles pertinent in that body. A 33rd could attend the Blue Lodge and has to sit on the sideline just like anyone else, and gets introduced for the honors he has received in the Blue Lodge. Also, when it comes to expulsion the Blue Lodge reigns because if you are expelled from the Blue Lodge for whatever reason, you lose your membership in all bodies of Freemasonry. If you are expelled from one of the appendant bodies, it may be that is the only body you are expelled from. He was best known for being a Grand Commander, not Grand Master. Albert Pike is the whipping boy of the anti-Masonic movement. I am a member of both the York Rite and Scottish Rite, but I find the ritual work of the York Rite to be much more interesting. I have also read "Morals & Dogma" in its entirety...not an easy undertaking. His book didn't really have anything original as he, in fact, copied works from others, but never cited him. All he did was compiled tons of information together and tied it to Freemasonry. He was an eccentric, strange man living in a racist time, but he actually fought for Native American rights and led a unit of them during the Civil War. Pike was also pardoned for his fighting for the Confederates and is the only Confederate General to have a statue in DC. In fact I do know what happens at top echelons as they are required to inform us and most decisions have to be approved before being implemented. There are too many variables and closely watching men for the leadership to do something without our knowledge. Truth is, prior to Ramsay's Oration there was never any talk or thought that we descended from the Templars. It was until that oration that there was speak of it. Did you read the motivation quote or go to the link to read the oration? Did you know there exists a document that suggests Freemasonry actually predates the Templars? It's called the Halliwell Manuscript or Regius Poem. As there has been no known discovery of a vast central repository of Templar documentation it is likely we'll never know what happened or anything more about them outside of legend, and what has been written by 3rd parties. Honestly, it is likely the whole may have been made up to increase our pedigree to the aristocracy. Who knows? Time, fire, and other destructive forces have destroyed records and documents that could point us in a direction. John J Robinson wrote an interesting book called "Born in Blood". It's not a completely accurate book, but it is a good read nonetheless. The Masonic Knights Templar take the name only in commemoration. The wealth of our fraternity comes from the dues and donations of the members. Freemasons are not as wealthy as some would think. Stephen Dafoe is a great researcher and Mason. I've read a few of his books. He does an amazing job. Nor am I. I am always researching and finding something new.
KSIGMASON - I don't have time to go through all of these posts, so could you please let me know the how, who, why the Knights of Templar (whom never existed I thought) and the Free Masons (like the undercover mofia, but also mostly folklore) have to deal with Satan please?
Okay, i'll try it... Okay, Then why is there only 1 line missing to make a pentagram... you'll never be able to answer this until you can get your hands on an original map... So you can honestly tell me in the claimed 5 years you have been a freemason, that you know what goes on at the very top. I'm not buying that one... Ive heard that they dont have a whole lot of info that the lower echelons can receive... just like with any organization, the troops dont know what the general is doing... I posted a quote and a link sourcing that he was promoted to grand master. I will post that link again...Albert Pike history If the leadership is corrupt, and secretive, there is no reason for them to disclose any info with the lower levels. Its common sense that they would filter out the corrupt stuff to keep the morale high. Perfect example is our government. if someone were to "leak" info i.e: wikileaks, its considered treason... But, you know with anything, if someone tries to expose the inner workings of any organizations, that person is dismissed as a conspiracy theorist... so even if your leadership does admit to any wrong doings, would you believe them? Okay, did you bother to skim through the wikipedia article? The reason i say this is, when an organization gets an audit of info, it is usually done by a 3rd party, to avoid conflict of interest. The same goes in this senario... Just the coincidental evidence surrounding the times of the creation of the ancient KT and the Fraternity KT within the Masons, is very odd. To have an organization with 10k-20k members, and vast wealth from building, and developing lands, just disband without merging with another group (i.e. the KT fraternity within the Masons) Logically the 2 groups were formed at the same time... theres got to be a connection. I honestly dont think that Ramsay's oration wasn't based on a pursuit of notoriety, i think he was trying to disclose information to the lower levels. but predictably, you all took it with a grain of salt... so with that said, no matter if I try to tell you and give you evidence, or if someone internally tries to tell you, you all will never believe it. Again, its all speculation, and none of it will ever be confirmed because, i said it before. Why would the leadership admit to wrongdoing? One reason is group think, another is information filtering. The real story probably is within the Hidden Master handbook. They arent gonna tell you about it. Again, The troops dont know what the General is up to...
Here is a short summary: One basis is from Leo Taxil who claimed that Pike claimed to worship Satan, but in fact the guy had made it up for sheer amusement. Another is that Pike says "Lucifer" in his most famous of books "Morals & Dogma", but he is speaking of enlightenment not Satanism. Stephen Knight, an anti-Mason, claims that the Royal Arch Masons worship a demon god of Baal and Osiris, but he does not support and really just expects people to take his word on it. Some of our degrees and orders have either Knight or Templar in it, but that is in commemoration of the knights, not descendants of them. In fact, most of the founders of the various Templar orders made up the legends to increase their pedigree. In short, the claims of Satanic rituals and worship is ludicrous and absurd.
You know, I was just in DC the other day and I completely forgot to stop by and see if I could find one. Maybe one of the Brothers over there can grab one for me...I'll have to contact my Brothers. The meetings that the "top levels" hold are not secret to the members. I can attend the meetings of the top levels. I'll pat my back real quick, but I have ascended some of the ladders of leadership fairly quickly and have been invited to invite-only, honorary groups that for my age and years in is not normal, but not unheard of. I hold the record in my Lodge for youngest Worshipful Master. I have also been offered positions in the Grand line in the Blue Lodge and Royal Arch. I have also recently started putting in work with the General Grand Chapter of Royal Arch Masons, International. Oh, that's for the Royal Order of Scotland, not the Scottish Rite. Except we don't have classified information nor do we operate just like the US government does. I'm not saying that we're not without scandal. In fact some Grand Lodges are fighting with the Grand Encampment over the creation of a new Rectified Scottish Rite organization in the US. The Grand Lodge National of France just lost all recognition because its leadership was too corrupt. You can read about the Grand Encampment fight here. Well most of their land and possessions were given to other Orders. It is not outside the scope of logic to think that they merged, but it is highly unlikely that it was with stone masons, particularly when stone masons. The Order of Christ is fairly likely as well as if some of them went into Switzerland as there is legend there that talks about knights coming to the rescue of some rebel peasants. Except he was only a Master Mason, he didn't even really hold any notable positions other than being a well known orator. He was trying to market Freemasonry to aristocracy. Fact remains, prior to his oration there was no thought of a Templar connection, and as I said, he didn't connect the Freemasons to the Templars. How is being connected to the Templars wrong? Even if it were true the Templars were absolved of all their crimes from the jealous French king. I'm only dismissive of those theories that have been disproved. I've been heavily researching this for some time and so have been some notable Masons who are just as curious as you or I are. I'd personally find it awesome to find a solid, concrete connection to the Templars, but for now it remains just a romanticized idea. Hidden Master handbook?
The Hindus worship Krishna. I once thought that Krishna was the same as the God of the Christians, but after attending some of their services and learning and reading their scriptures, I have come to wonder whether there are in fact many similarities between Krishna and Lucifer described in the Bible. Krishna is referred to as the "all attractive one". Just looking at their idol of Krishna gives me a feeling that it is not God.
If you really wanted to get technical and jump into it, Hinduism has millions of gods. They believe that all these gods though are just manifestations of a Brahma. Even the evil demons are said to spawn from him. There are a lot of similarities between the end of times of Christianity and Hinduism, but also some great differences.
Cool, I figured since your organization was the builders, you could clarify it. But believe me, i will always find it odd that there is one street missing. i found some interesting info on underground passages in DC. some are private, for congress, during in-climate weather, and some are public. Okay, some clarification. By leadership levels, i mean at the Consitory levels, or 31st degree or 32nd. according to your profile on your blog, you are a 3rd degree... so, my point stands that you most likely dont know the real story... It even states in the Documentary, that 1st-3rd dont know anything due to them being new to the org. Regardless, he wrote Magnum Opus. He wrote it for the 4th - 32nd degrees. it was ignored, but later was accepted to be used for future revisions. So to dismiss Albert Pike as not being Grand Master, is ludicrous. The Scottish order is directly related to freemasonry, as its members are selected from the Scottish rite. Heres a little oath that you took. http://www.trosch.org/bks/blue_lodge.html According to that oath, you cant even tell a judge under oath, meaning, you must Lie to protect your brothers... When i use my logic, that doesnt make sense. im not going to repeat myself, over and over. its Guilty by association... both organizations formed at the same tim. and when the ancient order was disbanded, they reformed in the masonic fraternity KT. Again, you are 3rd degree. a ton of information is not disclosed to you... And if it were disclosed, you are required by oath to lie about it to protect your brothers .So, with that said, no mason has ever come forth with information. All that people can do is put together various facts, or observations, and use logic to put the pieces together. there are tons of evidence all through history pointing the KT to the masons. Exactly... you wouldnt know about it... I commend you for keeping with your oath. It shows that you are very honorable. That is a very good trait to have.
Dude, hes not gonna tell you. He is a 3rd degree, and thus is not going to know anything... even if he did know anything, he cant tell you. He is sworn to secrecy. Its called compartmentalization, all organizations utilize this to keep the bottom of the pyramid clueless... To sum it up in my words, the satanism part comes mostly from Albert Pikes 4th* - 32nd* literature, named Morals and Dogma. Surprise, i found a .pdf copy... lol http://fedgeno.com/documents/morals-and-dogma-by-albert-pike.pdf Aperrantly this book was used by the Scotish Rite masons for the 4th - 32nd degrees up til the 1970's. Judging by the first page, it seems that the book is dedicated to Satan... But KsigMason, due to his oath, is likely to refute this, even though, i linked the book in its entirity, for you to read...
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IH6Z2Hid338"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IH6Z2Hid338[/ame] Pay attention to how hard the masons in this video, are trying to disprove the pentagram in washington...
I don't doubt it. From my blog profile: I am a 32° Mason and member of the Consistory. From your quote I presume you think the Scottish Rite is the "top level". I should correct you as degree doesn't equal rank or title. Like I've said before, the Sovereign Grand Inspector General (a 33°) could show up to Lodge and have no authority than any other member. The Scottish Rite has no authority over any other body than itself. In reality, the York Rite is far more restrictive and has more degrees than the Scottish Rite. That documentary is not indicative of anything. It was wrong on several things. You realize that there is a big difference between the Royal Order of Scotland (ROOS) and the Scottish Rite? You realize that the Scottish Rite started in France? He was Provincial Grand of the ROOS not the Scottish Rite. He was Grand Commander in the Scottish Rite. I know the Oath I took as I have recited it many times. Nor is what you posted the oath I took. Nor do I have any moral disagreements with all the various Oaths & Obligations. Nowhere in my oath did it say to lie. In fact I was told in the 1st degree to always be honest and charged to be a good citizen. Everyone sees the obligations but don't realize that the Charges of each degree is just as binding as the Oaths. Actually they didn't form at the same time. Where do you get this? You should really look at my signature block. Evidence based on historical fiction not fact. Many of the perpetuation myths have been debunked. Except I've been a Master of the Lodge and I never had a secret handbook. And how is it you think you know about it and I don't? Don't you find it arrogant to say you know more about an organization than an actual member? I swore to keep my word.
I am a 3rd degree but I am a member of many Masonic organizations. Plus even if I was just a 3rd degree I'd still know more than you. I am pretty sure I can speak for myself. There is plenty we are open about but there are some things we keep secret and private. Have you actually read all of Morals & Dogma? There are lots of copies out there and you could always find a copy in a library. They still give it out to new members along with Rex Hutchens abridged version...at least in my Valley? Nowhere is it Satanic.
Interestingly we have an ancient historian saying the Hebrew are from India. "The tribe of Ioud or the Brahmin Abraham, left the Maturea of the kingdom of Oude in India and, settling in Goshen, or the house of the Sun or Heliopolis in Egypt, gave it the name of the place which they had left in India, Maturea." (Anacalypsis; Vol. I, p. 405.) (Genesis 25:17-18.) "...Ishmael breathed his last and died, and was gathered to his kin... They dwelt from Havila (INDIA), to Shur, which is close to Egypt, all the way to Asshur."
Weather you dispute me or not. The oath still says you have to lie about everything... http://www.trosch.org/bks/blue_lodge.html And from what i have read, as you go higher in the masons, the punishments get harsher and harsher for breaking the oaths...
I'll have to find it again but in my studies someone stated it could have been possible for Christ to have traveled to India during his years of hiding. Actually that is not the oath I took. Nor did the obligations I took day to lie, I've taken around 20 (and if you want to count the Scottish Rite degrees that were communicated and not exemplified then that number is around 40). Nor is that site you linked credible by any stretch of the imagination. If one breaks his oath he is expelled. That is all.
