Because my interests are Archaeology, Comparative Religions, and philosophy. I am interested in ancient societies, their mythology, movements, and interaction, leading to more recent groupings, philosophy, and mythology.
its proof that the Illuminati exists because they are speaking about it. Basically Snyder was referring G.W to read the book, which is an Illuminati book...
There is no question about such groups existing - just read some history. They have existed from the beginnings of civilization - however - being secret - and having goals in government - does not automatically make them evil. Secret Societies get sensationalized by different groups that have fears, especially Christian groups.
Then what is your purpose in holding an interest in subjects that contain information on subjects that you do not believe in?
I assure you I have read books and watched documentaries about FreeMasons and Secret Societies. As I'm sure you know, they were quite involved in the Revolutionary War. More then 30 of the Generals were FreeMasons, and of course Ben Franklin was a Provincial Grand Master of Pennsylvania, as well as signers, etc.
Obviously, one does not have to believe in the devil, or religion, to study ancient and modern mans', ideas about such, and of course ancient religious documents. I find it quite interesting.
Would not that be obvious. The study of such teaches us a lot about the inner workings of the ancient, and modern, human being's mind, and also adds to our understanding of the petroglyphs and symbols left by ancient man.
Finding that study is simply interesting... Hmmm... and you have no further purpose? Don't you think that it is a bit odd that you would spend your valuable time studying things which contain information that you don't believe in simply because you find it interesting and that has no further importance to you than to fulfill your interest ? It can be true that one does not have to believe in the devil or religion to study ancient and modern mans ideas about such, but to do so without a tangible purpose is simply odd. I have a feeling that the more you post, the more you will reveal about your 'purpose'. Welcome to PF.
Probably not my place to speak for someone else and considering how new I am here as well, I probably have no business defending anyone either, but I see this 'why do you (fill in the blank) when you're an atheist?' thing rather frequently and it irks me personally. Many forms of entertainment have many many people doing exactly what you accuse this person of doing. Whether it's soap operas, 'reality' TV, comic books, romance novels, professional or organized sports or an almost limitless stream of movies and this is before we touch the realms of video games, celebrity gossip and fan fiction. Why are you suggesting this person must have an agenda because the source of their interest is known to be fiction to them? Second, if you're going to insist that they have some agenda, how would you go about showing that you don't have one of your own and what makes theirs any different than yours on this forum, aside from where you'd like opinions shifted toward?
Welcome to the "irks me Political forum". Am I supposed to feel bad now that you have displayed that most emotional response? Be careful with those razor edges when you find yourself in such an emotive state of being. What precisely have I "accused this person of doing"? I am rather curious to see what it is that I have "accused" someone of doing. Ooops! Now it has decreased in magnitude... deescalated from "accused" to "suggested". We all have an agenda. I will be the first to admit that I have an agenda. Unlike some others on this forum, who will not admit the same about their purpose and reason for being on this religious segment of the PF. The primary factor that differentiates my agenda from some others on this forum, is the fact that my agenda supports the Bible, Jesus, God, the Holy Spirit; while the comments and behavior of some others on this forum tend to showing that (even though they have not necessarily stated a purpose) their purpose is opposed to that for which I am here.
Well, I'm a Christian, and in Idaho, an ordained minister. I'm also a Mason. [dramamtic music plays] First off, nice dramatic entrance, but that doesnt give any credibility to what is being said. Symbols? The use of symbols isnt exclusive to secret societies. Everyone uses them. The All Seeing-Eye is nothing more than a representation of God, in whatever form one worships him. What is the American Dream? Who says what each persons dream and goal is? I dont want a house near a big city with a white picket fence and a two car garage. Do you really have any proof that the Illuminati exists other than the ramblings of loons? And with that we should also clarify, which Illuminati? Are you referring to the Bavarian Illuminati? I am all for a free Tibet and by no means do I hold a friendly opinion of the Chinese government. Nor do I care what a bunch of men do in some forest in California. Free men have the right to assemble as they wish. Which members of the Warren Commission were Masons? If so, who the hell cares. The Freemasons had no beef with Kennedy. Didnt the Skull & Bones exist before the creation of the Nazi SS? So wouldnt it be the Nazis who stole the symbols? Plus they stole symbols from other cultures and it also goes back to my first paragraph where I talked about multiple uses and meanings of symbols. I mean look at the swastika, Eastern religions used it long before the Nazis did. Ive talked about the absurdity and invalid argument that the Freemasons created the Great Seal of the US: Skipping along through the video through all the Gulf War propaganda, Bushs speech was not given in 1991, it was given in 1990. Going back to the $1 bill, Annuit Coeptis doesnt mean Our enterprise is now a success. That is either just plane ignorance or he is lying to make his point. It means God favors our undertaking Secular means worldly as in materialistic, temporal, not ecclesiastical or clerical. Novus Ordo Seclorum means New Order of the Ages, and America was just that. The Illuminati wasnt formed in 1774, they were founded May 1, 1776. The All Seeing-Eye has been used by Christians in the past. I do love the obsession that conspiracy theorists have with 13, many who are Christian, look over the fact that 13 is also very relevant number to Christianity. They also look past 13 in reference to our history. To them it has to be connected to a secret society, and not just the fact that there were 13 colonies!! Its also not 13 berries that is an olive branch. There are so many inconsistencies. If anyone follows this video and takes it at their word, they are a stupid fool. Tony Blair is not a Freemason. There is actually no proof of it anywhere. Those who say cant for sure what Lodge he belongs to or when he went through it. Neither can they say what positions hes held, but rather just say Hes a high ranking Mason. Can we take the word of this video and know for sure what his monthly mortgage is? How did this videos author find out that information? I mean, we dont hide our membership, but it is up to us if we do reveal that. I am a member of the US Army and most know I am a Freemason, but if I was forced to register on a survey if I was a Freemason to appease/pander to some paranoid group, I would refuse. No man should be compelled to do anything against his will especially when his private life is no one else business. I cant speak for British Freemasonry, but then again British Freemasonry and its leadership has no bearing or authority over the many American Grand Lodges. Nor can the Queen be in charge of the Freemasons. Every Grand Lodge is sovereign and independent, the leadership being elected by the voting membership. Stephen Knight is a liar and could never back up his writings. He made it up. The 33rd degree is not the highest degree in Freemasonry. It is the highest degree in Scottish Rite Masonry. The highest degree is the 3rd degree as the Blue Lodge is the trunk of the Masonic tree. If we want to go by more exclusive requirements and number of the degrees, the York Rite (and all its honorary, invite-only bodies) has many more degrees than the Scottish Rite. Profane just means you are not a member, that you are ignorant concerning the particular subject. Everyone is ignorant about something. To be continued...
Churchill was a Freemason, but there is no evidence that he was a Scottish Rite Mason. In fact, he never held any officer position and resigned in 1912. There is some documentation that he tried to petition a new Lodge, but that was unsuccessful. Aleister Crowley did not design the Baphomet we see today. The current design was done by Eliphas Levi who died the year Crowley was born. Again, see the inconsistencies. Our rituals are Satanically inspired? Wow, since most of our rituals and legends of Masonry are based on Judeo-Christian stories. Most Masons do in fact know there are other degrees beyond Craft Masonry (Blue Lodge). In fact, most Lodges Ive been to around the country and world have some kind of production that shows the degrees and appendant bodies of Masonry. Aristocrats in Masonry are found only in countries with aristocrats. The appendant bodies or rites of Masonry are not just exclusive to aristocrats. There are actually a lot more than just a few dozen. The active 33rd degree members who comprise the Supreme Council of that jurisdictions Scottish Rite is comprised of 33 members, but there are many, hundreds, thousands of honorary 33rd degree Masons. I know in the Southern Jurisdiction of the USA, there were over 400 men elected to receive the 33rd degree. Aleister Crowley was not a Mason. Some say he was an irregular or clandestine Mason in France, but no Grand Lodge in America or the UGLE would allow him to attend Lodge. The supposed membership in the Scottish Rite comes from him saying he went through the degrees in Mexico and his friend Mr. Yarker (an expelled Mason from Britain) gave him a patent of the Scottish Rite. This last week I was sitting with a well-known Colorado Mason who lectures around the country, and he informed me that in fact, Aleister never went through any Masonic degree and just made it up forging all documents along the way. Im currently looking into this myself, but it could be true. Even if he was an irregular Mason, he never held any position of note; he never presided over any body and degree does not equal rank. The only thing he was ever an influence on was the OTO which is not a Masonic organization. Neither Bush or Blair is or was ever a Mason. David Icke is a propagandist who is bilking money out of people using fear. He is just a mechanism of Fear Inc. Fearmongering is an expensive gig. If he truly believes half of what he spews out he is a quack and mentally unstable. Being a Freemason doesnt go against Christian beliefs or values. In the Royal Arch, the title of the presiding officer or senior ranking members is not Grand Solicitor Generals. Nor do we worship some demon god. This is nothing but lies perpetuated by the ignorant and stupid. I have posted this before: The actually exists no documentation or proof that Albert Pike was ever a member of the KKK, much less a founder or leader. Again it goes back to the circular reasoning that anti-Masons routinely use. One usually cites Davis or Fleming or someone who cited either one of those two. These two cite a KKK founder who never cites Pike, but they revised it to include him in there for whatever nefarious purpose. Pikes title in the Scottish Rite was Sovereign Grand Commander of the Supreme Council of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite, SJ, USA. There is no pontiff in that title. Contrary to what the video suggests at the end of Part 1, Pike did not send out a letter to confederated Supreme Councils, that is a part of the Taxil Hoax. Taxil himself even admitted to making it up. Also, I should point out that the video is comparing Royal Arch Masonry to Scottish Rite Masonry as if it was the same body and it is not. How is On a secret name for Osiris? Who says this? And what proof do they have of this? Id also like to point out that through the centuries, symbols once used by the church or Christian groups have come into use or fallen out of grace. Plus if all these secret societies or whatever are so powerful, how come all these conspiracy theorists are allowed to tarnish their good name? How come the internet is flooded with anti-secret society ramblings? How come David Icke and those like him are allowed to make their speeches? If what they were saying was true wouldnt the Illuminati stop them? Again, there is no Grand Patroness of World Freemasonry. The only body ever in Freemasonry to ever talk about hidden masters was the Rite of Strict Observance where von Hund said he was the mediator, but that Rite died out after some time. The Skull & Bones is not a Masonic organization. As I said before, Stephen Knight made up a lot of stuffs. He made many allegations he could neither support nor cite source. Not even Ripper-ologists know who Jack the Ripper was. If anything can be said, the Golden Dawn was fringe Freemasonry and is not accepted as a leglitimate order. Wait? Dimensional demons created pollution? Uh huh ROFL How is 666 a Masonic number of the Beast? Isnt that number revered by Christians to be the number or mark of the Beast? 666 is not a Masonic number. Again with Aleister Crowley? He was nothing more than a pervert who thought he could trick people into thinking his penis was divine rod for people to attain enlightenment. Im no fan of the OTO or what Aleister did. Wait? Wealthy, prominent men have become Skull & Bonesman?! Well, let me just say .NO (*)(*)(*)(*) SHERLOCK! Just look at their membership requirements. Skull & Bones may say they cannot talk about their membership, but that doesnt apply to Freemasonry at least in free countries. Who says Magog is Bush Srs occult name? All I heard was the video tell me this, I didnt see any proof of this. No documentation or informer. Nothing. All this video has been was a lot of allegations, but no evidence. I dub this video, 2+ hours of weak sauce.
The OP, sorry, I forgot to attach the OP quote. It's about scapegoating and fearmongering. Nothing more.
To be completely honest with you. The fact that you claim to be a free mason would be a conflict of interest in you dismissing nearly all of this video. Why would someone openly admit to anything. And how would you know whether anyone is a free mason or not... Explain to me the reasons why there is a global network of Masonic Temples? What are their purposes? Then again, why would you tell me, an outsider? I bet, if i took this video for a grain of salt, and actually researched the subjects, i would find the sources. but I'm much to young and unwise to undertake the research of over 700 years of a secret society. so im going to entrust other people to inform me with the collective knowledge... It seems pretty interesting though, why would someone make such accusations? Why would you try to disprove everything in the video? You haven't done much to make me dismiss this subject, your response has left me with more questions than answers...
No its not, but if you want to play that card, the same could be said of you supporting the video and being anti-Mason. Why would I hide the fact that I'm a Mason. Because I so choose, I have no problem proclaiming my membership. Depends on the situation. The Internet is not so easy, but sometimes you can tell by how they write...particularly if its in regards to Freemasonry. Well, a local Lodge will meet at a Temple (not in the ecclesiastical sense; meaning we don't do any worshiping there) and hold our meetings (stated/business or ceremonial). Each Lodge falls under a Grand Lodge and each Grand Lodge around the world is sovereign and independent relying on mutual recognition between other Grand Lodges. There is a lot we're willing to talk about and discuss, and then there are some things we won't because we gave our word not to. Loyalty and fidelity used to mean something, but I guess I'm old fashioned. Actually I had most of the day off and took my time to watch the video and research every detail to make sure I wasn't talking out my butt. So you're saying your just going to blindly follow what others say? Huh? That really speaks volumes of your character and intellect. No offense, it is just an observation. I personally research every little thing. Paranoia, ignorance, hatred, jealousy, and so on can cause men to spread lies fairly easily. Why do I try to disprove lies? Because I hate lies and would like to set the record straight. Ask away.
As a Christian I am not required to reveal any secret societies. I am required to give the gospel to all I can. The Masons are not enemies to Christianity. They don't pretend to take the place of Christianity. They are not against us. Thus I think Jesus advice is appropriate here. If they are not against us, then they are for us. Quantrill
The very idea of Satan is actually taken directly from Norse mythology. He is based on Hell the Norse Goddess of Torture. His domain is even named after her.
The response was to something that annoys me. That doesn't make the response itself an emotional one. This less than clever thing you did here looks fairly emotional though. Perhaps heed your own advice? Either that they were just wasting their precious time or that had some hidden agenda, which I stated quite clearly before. I can see already what type of person I'm dealing with so I'll save you the time of acknowledging that you didn't use those exact words but these were your insinuations none the less. If anything needs further explanation let me know. I love when people hang on my every word. Those things aren't mutually exclusive though, certainly not on a scale of 'escalation'. Perhaps. Mine was simply to have an exchange of ideas with interesting people. Do you know any? Credit given where it's due. At least you do admit it. Now ask yourself if this is why you assume that absolutely everyone else has an agenda as well, which would mean for purposes here something beyond entertainment or just socializing. Let me not disappoint you. Since you have your stated agenda here, I'll be glad to be one of your opposition openly. The only thing I ask is for you to try and treat me with the same respect you yourself expect to be treated with and I will gladly return the favor.
"There are innumerable types of negative states and emotions: anger, hostility, envy, boredom, depression, anxiety and worry, resentments, suspicion, fear, self-pity, annoyance, jealousy, mistrust, emotions of violence, and so on and on. Ouspensky describes negative emotions as a terrible phenomena, which solve nothing, yield no knowledge, make life a burden and result in the great violence and suffering of humankind. Even worse is the fact that people do not realize that negative emotions are something which might be questioned, or struggled with in order to eliminate." Well of course it was 'emotional'... in the sense of 'humor'. Perhaps I should have placed a "LOL" at the trailing end. So now it is recognized that expressing an opinion is the equivalent of "accusing someone of something". Interesting. Really? On one end of the scale there is a mere suggestion; On the other end of that scale rests the outright "accusation". In between the two, are varying degrees of descriptions that can be either more accusatory or more suggestive. Therefore, depending on the verbiage (descriptions) being used, there is formed a scale and subsequently the availability of either escalating the matter or deescalating the matter. Yes! Words do have a power of their own, and nine times out of ten, those words will accomplish what they are sent forward to do. Well of course I do know some. Most of them are Christian with slightly different views on the Bible, God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit, and the teachings that were established by Jesus. Others are rather humdrum IMHO. The most commonly exploited agenda is one in which the user seeks to gratify his/her ego. My personal view and aim is to diminish ego and promote spirituality. Granted.
Found this interesting website: http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/rosebud/worshippers_of_lucifer.htm From what i gather, The History of Freemasonry. Originated from Knights Templar. Templar members invented and created the Banking Institutions of Europe. Funding castle and cathedral construction, hence Masonry. Many Templar members where of Nobility keeping the money and power among themselves. King Philip the 4th of France, new that this power was a threat. He broke away from the Vatican and appointed his own Pope. They started an Inquisition against the Templars many was arrested and burned at the stake including Jacques Molay. Many Templar members rightly charged with witchcraft and homosexuality. The rest of the Templars fled to Scotland and England, the Scottish and York right of Masonry.
Let's start with the supposed pentagram in the streets of DC. The thought that there exists a pentagram in the DC street design is actually false. Let's look at the pictures of the streets. Here is a basic map view of DC (specifically zoomed in on the area thought to be the pentagram): Here is the pentagram overlay, with the blue line showing the broken connection as the street is not present: George Washington, the only confirmed Freemason of this group I'm talking about, charged Pierre L'Enfant with creating the street designs of DC. He took the Jeffersonian idea of a grid square and overlaid it with with a few placed radials; doing this you're going to see a square and compass of some kind of shape easily, but I can also spell "JESUS" with the streets of DC. L'Enfant was eventually fired and took the plans with him so two surveyors had to recreate the design, luckily one of them had a good memory - these two were Ben Bannacker and Andrew Ellicot. None of them were Freemasons. It's very possible that they aligned the city with the stars, but this is nothing new. Nor is DC exactly an original idea as Jefferson and L'Enfant pulled inspiration from the city of Karlsruhe. This Jim Shaw quote may have been made, but he was never a 33rd degree Mason. He had received the KCCH which is a requirement for the 33rd, but he never received that degree. Shaw claims many things, but can never prove it. Example: He claims to have been Master of his Lodge, and yet there is no proof that he was ever an officer of his Lodge, in any position. As the site is saying, I will repeat: Pike was never a member or leader of the KKK. I've also talked about his misquoted "Lucifer" quote as well as the Taxil Hoax which alleged Pike wrote to "confederated councils". As well as the obsession with "33", I'm just going to say, you're going to find demons when you want to. It's called scapegoating. The site states that "Deus Meumque Jus" means "God is my Right", but in fact the literal translation is "God and my Right" James Marples, a member of the SRICF, states: It's an interesting interpretation, but I thought I'd put it out there. I personally think the Protocols of the Elders of Zion are a hoax. Mark Twain was a Mason. While I was deployed I read an interesting book by Stephen Dafoe who wrote on Masonic Templary. One of the chapters talked about Templar perpetuation myths. In another chapter Stephen Dafoe says we Freemasons are peculiar not being satisfied with being a part of an organization that has existed for centuries, but that we look for a history that takes us into antiquity. The first ever person to say we come from Knights is Andrew Michael Ramsay. In 1737 it is said that he gave his famous Oration (read here). The interesting thing though is he says we came from the Knights of St. John, not the Templars. After this occurred though, there was a wild fire of Masonic Chivalric Orders popping up all over the place each with its own legend and story. You have the Audmont legend, the legend of Robert the Bruce at Bannockburn, you have the story that the Swedish Rite uses, the Knights of Christ legend, the legend perpetuated by the Rite of Strict Observance, and the one given by the Rectified Scottish Rite. The Templars were a international corporation of sorts. They took (*)(*)(*)(*)ty land and properly cultivated it. They were also well known for building wind powered mills. The banking is a well known aspect of their work King Phillip didn't really break away from the Vatican as he really just had the Pope's who wouldn't play his game were killed off. His childhood friend was put into the chair and was his little puppet to a point. If you read the Chinon Parchment, the Pope had actually after an investigation absolved the Templars of any wrongdoing, but did in fact want to dismantle the group. Incensed, Phillip without permission of the Pope burned DeMolay on and island near Notre Dame. I could go on and on about the Templars, how they gained their wealth so quickly, the most likely system of "secret code" they used for their banking notes, and their destruction by King Phillip. I don't think there is enough bandwidth for me though
Actually I wasn't talking about "hell." I meant the added in "evil" Sa-tan idea, and demons, etc. The word "hell" wasn't used for Sheol - Gehenna - Tartarus - etc, until later. Though of course the original meant the grave, and became a kind of holding until the Judgement.
