Saving Democracy is not the most important thing on the ballot in the midterms....

No one who starts out by casting that aspersion against their debate sparring partner can be taken seriously themself.

 

Well, we all know you're saying this because you're afraid Republicans are going to gain control of Congress. Still going to holler about how the 2nd Amendment isn't for self defense against a tyrannical government? Because if you are, we'll know that what you just said here is BS and you're not actually afraid, or believe, that such will actually happen.

 

No, I'll be blaming Biden and the progressives. The Republicans pushing election fraud stupidity and anti-trans culture war crap don't deserve to be in power, but that being so does not mean that the Democrats do either. Our only option in this next election is fantastical stupidity, played out in different ways on both sides.

 

No research again except the intense survey of self??

The rule of law hasn't applied to leaders for a very long time. It's been lost in a covert sense in leadership, and now people are just saying if there are no rules for you, there are no rules for me.
But adherence to the basic principles of the constitution is not the only law involved. In evading that, we have unleashed a kind of mob law, where political splinters vie for dominance- and try to enforce propaganda turn priorities upside down, try to make nonsense the issue while real issues are ignored... and the unscrupulous are taking advantage of it. Those who can't see past the surface think that focus on nonsense is reasonable and holds the solutions. I think you are a person in that position. There is only one side to your coin; failing to understand the other being unable to be equitable in looking at things- is your handicap.

America is not broken. It has the finest foundation and primary guides to governance ever devised. However- it's allowed too many to use nonsense arguments to evade those principles, and allowed people to get by with excuses to why the law doesn't apply to some situations- especially ones they benefit from.

Democracy for you with disregard for others is not democracy at all. I think you can't see that. You want democracy to fit your interpretation, because you are sure you are right and therefore those who disagrees are wrong and there for your opinion should over-rule others- and they should all be happy because you think you would be happy with that. That is the core nature of what has happened to our society and it IS the core threat to democracy- diversion from the fundamental guideline and principles- but further aggravated by one side thinking they can exclude themselves at their convenience because they are righteous... while acting like political gangsters. Yes, you will reject his, spin it and say that it is the right presenting the "threat"- and again, you would be failing to practice the democratic principle you claim you value.

All of us are free to disagree with the opinions of others- and we are free to perceive others as being honest or untrustworthy. But we are not free to attack and harm them, to try and dis-empower them with political shenanigans or deceit because we don't like what we think they think. IF they cross the line of law- then there is reason to intercede. IF.

While neither side is innocent of the transgressions at the heart of our problems, the instigators of it are unfortunately, in my opinion- the same people you seem to endorse. Not because I'm on the conservative side, but because of the consistent actions of the left that place them solidly in that position.

Do you really want it to stop? Or only if you can feel the place it stops is a victory for you?

If you want to change things, you have to put down the partisan bias and get back to the root cause- the failure to honor the rules, the constitution, the prime directives of America. That starts in Congress.

 

Which is absurd because objectively, for now (and it has not always been this way, nor will it always be) there is ONE party that may... maybe.... possibly.... "fix things", and one that has NO interest in fixing anything because they believe that making a bigger mess, regardless of which party is in power, benefits them.

That would be the short-memory approach. If in just 2 years people forget that the party they are voting for, didn't just not "fix things" but, through their policies, made them worse.

But you're correct. That is what we have. Voters with short memory and who are too lazy to find out WHY things are the way they are. Because they also don't realize that some of the things they complain about are out of the reach for ANY administration. The days when we controlled everything in the world are long gone. After too many instances of "do nothing Congress", and one of an idiot President who isolated us from our allies, we no longer control things in the world. Now we are just another part of the flow.

By now, any adult over 50 will know how each party will govern. They have SEEN both. To believe that the party that made things worse four years ago will now fix it is the pinnacle of political ignorance and stupidity. But, you are correct, that's how a large number of voters think. And it's the main reason why nothing is actually solved.

 

The link answers all your questions. And it's the appropriate place to debate it. This thread is about the midterms, and how we are very close to losing what our forefathers created.

 

I have ALWAYS said this. It's in my sig! Except this time the danger is imminent. On the other hand, I'm ALWAYS afraid Republicans are going to gain control of Congress.

If people made an effort to understand what is going on before they cast their vote, it wouldn't matter.

I'll pass on the extreme-right baseless conspiracy theories. You might want to open a thread in the Conspiracy Forum. I might even argue there that a theory more reasonable than yours would be that the 2nd A was intended to allow us to defend ourselves against a Martian invasion. But that is completely unrelated to the topic of this thread.

 

ALL my posts are based on research. Read my sig!

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/18/us/politics/midterm-election-voters-democracy-poll.html

 

Only one-party fixing things is a personal opinion which the majority doesn’t agree with as they go back and forth. I agree, most Americans have very short memories. But were things worse 4 years ago or even 2 years ago for the average American? I don’t think so.


The Question that Terrifies Democrats: Are You Better Off Now Than You Were Two Years Ago?


https://amac.us/the-question-that-t...u-better-off-now-than-you-were-two-years-ago/

 

I agreed; you search your mind in great depth here. Consider everything stored there. Do your head home-work.

 

If one political party prepares bill after bill, and the other party just works to reject them, that should be an objective indicator, wouldn't it? If one party had COMPLETE control of Congress and passed NOTHING... that should also raise some alarms. I mean, even with two Senators in their own party helping obstructionists, Democrats DID manage to pass something. Republicans with FULL control and unanimous agreement in their own ranks passed NOTHING or relevance other than tax breaks for the rich. That should mean something.

Definitely yes! If we're talking about action by Congress, two years ago Congress was doing NOTHING. Even doing "too little" is better than that.

They are! But that's because it's a very dumb question. Democrats don't like that question because it can be answered with demagoguery. For example, we are better than 2 years ago. Because today we have the Covid vaccine.

On the other hand, Republicans LOVE that question because it can be answered with demagoguery. Clearly inflation doesn't go down.

Things are more expensive, but people have more money. So, bottom line, it's a question of what you focus on to answer it. ALL answers, from either side, are demagoguery. This is the reason why it's a bad question.

To Democrats, demagoguery is a two-edged sword. It can fool gullible independents, but it also disheartens people in their own base who THINK. Republicans don't have that problem. Their base will vote for their candidates even if they stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody. So all they have to do is target the gullible.

Politics is very complicated. And many self-proclaimed "independents" don't like complexity. They would prefer to see patterns they can apply equally to both parties. Those patterns don't exist in reality. The two parties are so different, that not even their negative points are comparable. Each party has to be analyzed independently and not comparing them to the other. And that confuses most independent voters.

 

The same thing happened during Obama with the Republican controlled house. Anything passed by the GOP house was tabled by Reid in the senate. So, what else is new? But is a person or individual better off today than two years ago in their life or lifestyle? No. Making ends meet and providing for family? No.


A lot of folks, especially independents vote their wallets. Their situation in life. I can’t blame them. Most independents don’t like either party, they see both major parties as the problem. I suppose that is a no brainier as if they liked one or the other party, they’d belong to it and wouldn’t be voting for one party one election or the other party the next. 75% of independents want a viable third party to challenge the monopoly the Republican and Democratic Party’s have over our election system. They want change, but not the change either major party offers. I’d say they feel boxed in, they rarely vote for anything, just against or vote for the lesser of two evils or for the candidates and party they want to lose the least. Not win, but lose the least. The problem is when the Republicans are in control, they govern just for their base. When the Democrats are in control, they govern just for their base. Perhaps, the way independents look at these things that divided government becomes a god sent. That way neither party can govern just for their base. Nothing gets done, true. But what 30% of the total electorate wants, the average base of each of the major parties, isn’t forced on all the rest.

 

Actually, no the link doesn't answer anything. Just word games and English to Golemese mumbo jump. Admittedly it's been a long time since I studied the Federalist Papers in college be I seem to recall the Founders were very concerned about unfettered majority rule, aka democracy. Granted their opinions varied as to the solutions and actual danger but the system we have is the end result and it is specifically NOT a democracy nor was it intended to be.

 

The link CITES the Federalist Papers you are referring to, so you don't have to "seem to recall", but actually READ what they wrote. But you refuse to read it.

If you want to continue debating this, I can respond there (given that it's off-topic here). No problem. But you would need to read its OP first. Your arguments were already amply addressed, debated and debunked in that thread. All you have to do is read it. But this is my last response about this in this thread. Mods are a little lenient, but only to a certain extent. And I have already had full threads deleted for going off-topic.

 

It cites a few of the 70+ that were written - I also mentioned that there was a range of opinions amongst them.

I read the OP - that was my comments were based on. And NOW you're treatening to alert the MODS?
Nice try throwing shade.

 

It was the REPUBLICAN President that attempted to overturn the 2020 election.
It is the REPUBLICANS in Congress who are doing everything in their power (and sometimes outside of their power) to thwart holding anyone accountable for that attempt.
It is the REPUBLICAN voters who continue to support those who deny the election in 2020 was open and fair.

So if you want to point a finger at who is currently trying to subvert Democracy the finger should be pointing to the right.

 

But you're OK with Dems appointing extremist partisan judges, correct?

 

I'm cheering for anyone that attempts to hold Trump accountable.
Be that the FBI or the Republican Liz Cheney.

 

Name the last time a "liberal" judge made up the law in order to hand out a ruling to benefit someone.

I can tell you who the last conservative judge to do that. Judge Canon in the Mar a Lago documents case.

 

I suppose it will likely be the Dems turn to whine like bitchy c##ts like the Repubs did over the 2020 election. Rinse repeat....rinse repeat

 

Sounds more like a LW mantra than proof of any kind. I realize that a judge actually following the law rather than applying the LW "If it sounds good in relation to LW tenets it must be the correct decision" followed by liberal judges.

 

Because democracy is under no threat at all in the midterms? If the GOP dominate the country they'll be another election and if the DNC win the GOP will happily cede power. Both US parties believe in democracy, it's incredible that each seem to doubt that?

 

They'll whine the same way whined here in Virginia last year after they got their asses handed to them on account of their arrogance and failed policies. It was pretty funny listening to them bawl "WAAAAAACISM!!!!" after we elected our first Latino AG and first Black woman to statewide office.

 

I'm sure there will be an election. Not so sure that will make a difference.

Really??? That would be great! We haven't seen that in a while.

Seriously, I think it's likely the GOP will begrudgingly cede power after many lawsuits, protests, and maybe even violence. But we can't take it for granted anymore.

 

It’s really sad how both sides have descended to such embarrassing levels.