Silly arguments being made by the right

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Patricio Da Silva, May 16, 2023.

  1. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    The first argument I keep hearing on this forum is this:

    The Durham report proves that Trump should never have been investigated.

    This is silly for a few reasons.

    1. The Durham report, though it agrees with that premise, Durham’s findings that the FBI’s investigation into the Trump campaign should not have happened are at odds with a previous Justice Department inspector general investigation into the FBI’s Russia probe, which identified problems with the investigation but concluded in December 2019 there was sufficient justification to open the inquiry.

    So, one guy says yes, the other no. I've reviewed considerable data on this and I find the idea that the FBI shouldn't have investigated Trump as a moot point given that this man is so full of lies, deception, and suspicious activity and is currently being investigated on a number of fronts, why should anyone lose sleep over whether or not the FBI should have or shouldn't have investigated Trump? This is why, to me, that argument is silly.

    Moreover,what's up with the right's hatred of the FBI? They used to be law and order people and loved the FBI. Now they hate them? And how can we impugn the integrity of the 30,000 dedicated men and women who fight the good fight, put bad guys in jail, but for a few who messed up during the FISA thing? The right has really lost their perspective on this and have gone full on partisan hack on it.

    Moving on.....

    2. Rod Rosenstein, who was the Deputy Attorney General of the United States at the time, appointed Robert Mueller as Special Counsel in May 2017. This appointment was made in the wake of President Donald Trump's firing of FBI Director James Comey. Comey had been leading an investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 Presidential election and potential links between Russia and the Trump campaign.

    Note that Rosenstein was appointed by Trump, Comey appointed by Bush (as Dep. AG, Obama appointed him to Dir FBI. However, but for the Bush appointment, Comey would never have been appointed by Obama), and Mueller was appointed by Rosenstein, and that each and every one of these individuals (Rosenstein, Comey, and Mueller) are REPUBLICANS. So this idea it's some kind of 'Clinton thing' is not supported by the facts. Moreover, it is very clear there is AMPLE reasons for the investigation, arising from the fact that Trump's contacts with Russia, well, it's like Russians are every where, from the time that Flynn met with the Russians to assuage their fears of sanctions, to the many contacts made up to and throughout the investigation.

    Rosenstein was overseeing the investigation due to Attorney General Jeff Sessions' recusal because of his own contacts with Russian officials during the 2016 campaign. Rosenstein appointed Mueller to ensure a thorough and independent investigation into these matters. He said at the time of Mueller's appointment, "I determined that it is in the public interest for me to exercise my authorities and appoint a Special Counsel to assume responsibility for this matter."

    Mueller, a former Director of the FBI, had a reputation for integrity and independence. His appointment as Special Counsel was seen as a way to ensure the investigation would proceed without political interference.

    The entire issue Trump had was that it was a blow to his fragile ego. IF he were a statesmen, a man of gravitas and integrity, knowing that an investigation would clear the air and prove his innocence, he would have welcomed it. But Trump, being a man who lacks wisdom, his fragile ego couldn't stand the idea of being investigated, and he also couldn't stand the idea that Russians interfered in the election, because if that were true, it would mean that his election wasn't legitimate. He tried to stop the investigation into Russian meddling at every turn, doing the nation a grave disservice.

    But the really silly point is that the right is arguing that Trump shouldn't have been investigated. However, as stated above, though for other reasons, Trump is being investigated for crimes, the point being that if there were ever a man who needed to be investigated, it is Trump, the guy oozes with slime, so this idea that an over zealous FBI shouldn't have investigated Trump, to me, is like, BFD, he's being investigated on so many fronts, what's the big saving grace that he shouldn't have been investigated by the FBI? It's kind of moot point, now. so, Its silly.


    The second silly argument I keep hearing is that The FBI was manipulated by Clinton, and was in cahoots with her.


    Uh, no, for one thing.........

    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/18/opinion/trump-fbi-conservative.htm

    Historically, though, the F.B.I. has been arguably the most culturally conservative and traditionally white Christian institution in the entire U.S. government.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/made-by-history/2023/02/23/fbi-conservative-christian-hoover/

    House Republicans have empaneled a Subcommittee on the Weaponization of the Federal Government to investigate the widespread belief on the right that the FBI and other agencies are attempting to “purge conservative views.” A recently leaked memo even fueled concern that this campaign includes investigating Catholic conservatives for their beliefs. More than 20 state attorneys general and a host of Republican officials have called for an investigation of the Bureau’s bias, “woke” culture and “religious persecution,” and even to defund the FBI.

    There is just one problem with the fury and demands for action: If the FBI suffers from bias against a political side, it’s the left. In fact, the Bureau’s history reveals that it has long had a conservative Christian preference in its hiring practices, culture and investigative priorities. While there have been some steps taken to address the Bureau’s bias, its fundamental culture remains in place — underscoring that the right’s claims are simply divorced from the reality of the Bureau.


    This idea that the most conservative christian agency in the US government is in cahoots with a Democrat is absurd on it's face, and defies logic.

    Repubs, y'all need to stop with the silliness, you're embarrassing yourselves.
     
  2. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    Silly arguments made by the left.

    Biden is doing such a great job we should re-elect him!
     
  3. lemmiwinx

    lemmiwinx Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The FBI got caught flatfooted siding with Hillary and her ridiculous Russia, Russia, Russia Trump collusion nonsense. Then it went downhill from there.
     
  4. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The Durham report unearthed one very sad fact. The FBI Russia/Trump Collusion hoax exceeded the damage of January 6th.

    January 6th had no lasting results except the democrat's preoccupation with it. The FBI Russia/Trump Collusion hoax likely changed the results of the 2020 election.
     
  5. Cybred

    Cybred Well-Known Member

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    collusion
    noun
    col·lu·sion kə-ˈlü-zhən

    Synonyms of collusion
    : secret agreement or cooperation especially for an illegal or deceitful purpose
    acting in collusion with the enemy

    Nothing ridiculous here.
     
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  6. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Durham found no collusion.
     
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  7. lemmiwinx

    lemmiwinx Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Durham also didn't charge anybody at the FBI with anything. A total waste of our time and money.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2023
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  8. Wild Bill Kelsoe

    Wild Bill Kelsoe Well-Known Member

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    "Russian collusion" was a total lie. It's time to admit it and move on.
     
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  9. Wild Bill Kelsoe

    Wild Bill Kelsoe Well-Known Member

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    Nothing, except it never happened.
     
  10. popscott

    popscott Well-Known Member Donor

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    Who was he suppose to charge?
     
  11. Cybred

    Cybred Well-Known Member

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    Sorry but trump met with Russians.
     
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  12. Wild Bill Kelsoe

    Wild Bill Kelsoe Well-Known Member

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    Nope. Never happened...lol
     
  13. popscott

    popscott Well-Known Member Donor

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    Yes my liberal friend.... you use the word "Russia" very loosely.... what you never go near is " Russian government"... totally different.
    Mueller was tasked with ...... and he failed to do so.

    Liberals pathetically use the same conflation when talking about absentee ballots and mass mail out ballots... totally different.

    https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/3726385/Order-3915-2017-Special-Counsel.pdf
    upload_2023-5-16_21-3-19.png
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2023
  14. popscott

    popscott Well-Known Member Donor

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  15. Trixare4kids

    Trixare4kids Well-Known Member

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    Lol, only the Democrats found it. Ask Adam Schiff, he'll show you his. ;)
     
  16. Cybred

    Cybred Well-Known Member

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    From wiki

    A meeting took place at Trump Tower in New York City on June 9, 2016, between three senior members of the 2016 Trump campaignDonald Trump Jr., Jared Kushner, and Paul Manafort – four other U.S. citizens, and Russian lawyer Natalia Veselnitskaya. The meeting was arranged by publicist and long-time Trump acquaintance Rob Goldstone on behalf of his client, Russian singer-songwriter Emin Agalarov.[1] The meeting was first disclosed to U.S. government officials in April 2017, when Kushner filed a revised version of his security clearance form.[2]

    Donald Trump Jr. made several misleading statements about the meeting.[3] He initially told the press that the meeting was held to discuss adoptions of Russian children by Americans. On July 8, 2017, after news reports stated that Trump Jr. knew the meeting was political, he admitted in a tweet that he had agreed to the meeting with the understanding that he would receive information damaging to Hillary Clinton, and that he was conducting opposition research.[4] When The New York Times was about to report on email exchanges between Goldstone and Trump Jr., Trump Jr. himself published the emails.[5][6] In early July 2017, it was reported that then-President Donald Trump himself drafted Trump Jr.'s initial misleading statement.[7] The report was later confirmed by the president's attorneys.[8] In July 2018, the president denied knowledge of the meeting.[9]
     
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  17. JonK22

    JonK22 Well-Known Member

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    All that when only this was needed

    "Silly arguments being made by the right"

    :alcoholic::applause::banana:
     
  18. JonK22

    JonK22 Well-Known Member

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    Senate Russia report proves Trump collusion was very real. But do voters care?

    With over 200 witness interviews and roughly 1 million documents reviewed, the nearly 1,000-page report documents in detail the comprehensive campaign conducted by Russian President Vladimir Putin and his proxies to seek influence within President Donald Trump's campaign, help Trump win the 2016 presidential election and amplify polarization and division within American society.

    Far from a hoax, as the president so often claimed, the report reveals how the Trump campaign willingly engaged with Russian operatives implementing the influence effort. For instance, the report exposes interactions and information exchanged between Russian intelligence officer Konstantin Kilimnik and then-Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort. According to the report, campaign figures “presented attractive targets for foreign influence, creating notable counterintelligence vulnerabilities.” (Manafort was later convicted of tax and bank fraud.)

    THAT'S THE GOP LEAD SENATE REPORT

    The bipartisan tone of the majority of the report, released by a committee chaired by Florida Republican Sen. Marco Rubio, should be welcomed by all Americans who want our elected leaders to protect American sovereignty. National security should never be a partisan issue.

    https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opini...trump-was-wrong-mueller-was-right-ncna1237743
     
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  19. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Wiki is not a reliable source.
     
  20. Cybred

    Cybred Well-Known Member

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    What parts are wrong?
     
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  21. JonK22

    JonK22 Well-Known Member

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    Far from a hoax, as the president so often claimed, the report reveals how the Trump campaign willingly engaged with Russian operatives implementing the influence effort. For instance, the report exposes interactions and information exchanged between Russian intelligence officer Konstantin Kilimnik and then-Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort. According to the report, campaign figures “presented attractive targets for foreign influence, creating notable counterintelligence vulnerabilities.” (Manafort was later convicted of tax and bank fraud.)

    The bipartisan tone of the majority of the report, released by a committee chaired by Florida Republican Sen. Marco Rubio

    https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opini...trump-was-wrong-mueller-was-right-ncna1237743

    There was Trump-Russia collusion — and Trump pardoned the colluder

    https://thehill.com/opinion/white-h...ia-collusion-and-trump-pardoned-the-colluder/
     
  22. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Wiki is a waste of time. There is little to no control over what is written. Find a better source.
     
  23. JonK22

    JonK22 Well-Known Member

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    As Donald Trump Jr. greeted his Russian-speaking guests in a conference room high atop Trump Tower in June 2016, he cut straight to the chase.

    “I believe you have some information for us,” Trump Jr. said to a Russian lawyer visiting from Moscow, according to one of the attendees.

    Trump Jr. had been expecting dirt on Hillary Clinton, provided as part of a Russian government effort to help his father’s presidential campaign — “potential information about an opponent,” he told congressional investigators, according to documents released Wednesday by the Senate Judiciary Committee.


    Also anticipating damaging information on Clinton was Rob Goldstone, the colorful music promoter for a Russian pop star, who had set up the meeting.


    “I expected there to be something that would make people react,” he told the committee.

    Instead, lawyer Natalia Veselnitskaya droned on about a 2012 law known as the Magnitsky Act that had imposed sanctions on Russia for human rights abuses and has been a particular vexation of Russian President Vladimir Putin.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...6192fc-58b4-11e8-8836-a4a123c359ab_story.html

    ...The Senate Intelligence Committee’s leadership said Wednesday that its investigation has determined that the Kremlin sought to help Trump win the election but that it will be several more months before the committee addresses the question of collusion.

    Trump Jr. was willing to accept Russian help
     
  24. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If you have better information than Durham, you should let him know.
     
  25. JonK22

    JonK22 Well-Known Member

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    Intelligence Report: Russia Tried To Help Trump In 2020 Election

    Russian President Vladimir Putin authorized "influence operations aimed at denigrating President Biden's candidacy and the Democratic Party, supporting Trump, undermining public confidence in the electoral process and exacerbating socio-political divisions in the U.S," says the report by the Office of the Director of National Intelligence.

    https://www.npr.org/2021/03/16/9779...t-russia-tried-to-help-trump-in-2020-election

    Senate Intel report confirms Russia aimed to help Trump in 2016

    The Senate Intelligence Committee on Tuesday reaffirmed its support for the U.S. intelligence community’s conclusion that the Russian government interfered in the 2016 presidential election with the goal of putting Donald Trump in the Oval Office.

    Tuesday’s bipartisan report, from a panel chaired by North Carolina Republican Richard Burr, undercuts Trump’s years of efforts to portray allegations of Kremlin assistance to his campaign as a “hoax,” driven by Democrats and a “deep state” embedded within the government bureaucracy.

    https://www.politico.com/news/2020/...rms-russia-aimed-to-help-trump-in-2016-198171
     

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