something from nothing

Since He is not a thing - i.e., an entity which can be analyzed, categorized or otherwise objectified - the question is moot.

You're welcome.

 

Sounds like a figment of your imagination then.

You're welcome.

 

This is obviously an order of events issue. At best, it's just as hard to imagine a universe exists but was never created as it is to imagine a deity who is outside of the rules of the universe he created.

 

So you are admitting that those non-theists described in my previous post were being hypocrits. Fantastic. That is a step forward on your part.

 

My humble apologies Swensson. With as many in the opposition that I normally have to contend with, I sometimes lose track of who is who on this forum... especially when there are so many who claim to be Christian (Beleivers in God and Christ), but the fruit of their works show differently. I simply misinterpreted what you were saying, I sincerely apologize.

 

Well, hey... He created the universe, so it is not unlikely that He also provided a method for Him to not be affected by the "rules of the universe"...

 

I said "at best." I personally don't see the logical flaw in the *idea* that a deity could create the universe and establish a physical rule of said universe that nothing can be created by nothing, excepting the obvious idea of a miracle.

The op seems to want to suggest that the very western idea of God is inconsistent with itself, but it isnt. It's just hard to prove that God exists. which is why I find that the op is going entirely the wrong route with this. There is no internal inconsistency with the christian idea of God

 

You are making a positive claim that 'god' created the universe. Show PROOF of this claim!

 

I appreciate your comments which added clarity to what you had stated. Thank you.

 

If you take away everything you still have darkness and silence.

If there is such a thing as nothing....nothing and something must be the same thing.

 

What's so hard about that? Is the developer of a video game bound by its rules when he doesn't even have to play it?

 

Please stay on topic.

 

It's a very simple question - so there is no 'wrong route'. once again for all those who missed the actual point of the thread (I'm looking at you, Inc),

WHERE DID YOUR GOD COME FROM?

 

again, a god creating a universe - or even a god thinking about creating a universe - is something in motion. so who or what set this god in motion? and what set the thing in motion which created the motion of creating the god who created this universe?

until you can adequately define what a pre-motion state is, and then demonstrate its necessity, we can't stop the infinite regression train.

 

Actually, the idea that something can exist "outside of time" is very hard to understand. Time is simply a measurement of change, so anything "outside of time" cannot change. Since the act of creating is definitely a change, then nothing "outside of time" can create anything.

 

This was your 3rd post without addressing the OP.
Answer the question. Then ask your question or start another thread. Don't try to take it OT.

 

It comes from the 'higher spirit', it can't be recorded as then it would lose it's meaning and become distorted and be the cause of many wars and weird discussions.
So you'll have to take his intuitive word that he has heard the 'word'.

 

Your modification of my statement changed it entirely. That's not what I said.

 

Well, it must be that a question was posed to a member and that member could not answer (honestly) without placing him or her self in a potentially embarrassing situation.

- - - Updated - - -

Well, I guess I will have to take his word for it then, but that does not mean that I have to believe it.

 

Huh, so you didn't comprehend what you quoted, or what I earlier said. Pity, because if that was lost on you, it's unlikely any other way of phrasing it will get through. Oh and, please,refrain from using caps like that, for your own sake. It's online yelling and just demeans yourself, esp. When jumped to so quickly.

Now the issue of whether there is a God is unprovable - or please, disprove Gos. *rollseyes* sticking to a question isn't a line of argument and it's a question already established that can't be answered. As I already suggested, if you reject God you are still left with the same underlying issue.

 

Rather than respond with such caviling, you'd have done better not to respond at all.

 

I have not looked into the posts of these "non-theists" you refer to. I was referring to you.

 

Ditto?

 

If you don't care to answer the question, so be it. perhaps there is a theist here who is happy to answer it, and answer it without resort to obfuscations and posturings.

 

which is more likely?

A God always existed and created everything
everything always existed and with time changed into what we know today and will continue to change in the future

common sense