Study: Hydroxychloroquine increases COVID-19 survival rates

This is how it's always been done. Almost 20 years ago, almost every midwife, doula and natural remedies provider was being run out of business in the north suburbs of Chicago. Cops were literally staking out their homes and offices. I know of two medical doctors that relinquished their licenses because of unrelenting stress of being bullied by his peers.

So this kind of "shutting out" isn't new with the onset of COVID. The AMA has deep, deep pockets and they are out to stop any and everybody from honing in on their "customers".

 

Howard Stern finds Trump the best possible subject for an interview. "He simply says what is on his mind at the moment. It doesn't matter if it hurts him or not as he can always lie about it later."

 

That's not a good quality for the leader of country.

Stern openly said that Trump despises his supporters (but they seem to live in some kind of bubble and don't care about these small (or big) details that show Trump's true personality).

Howard Stern Says Donald Trump “Despises” MAGA Voters, Thinks President Should Step Down
https://deadline.com/2020/05/howard-stern-donald-trump-despises-maga-supporters-1202933838/​

The last time I've seen this many apologists, people were flooding the streets because my elementary school religion teacher, a Priest, had been named in some pedophilia complaints to the Vatican. I don't understand how people just walk through life with blinders on.

 

It isn't that they don't know, they know and they don't CARE. Trump hates the right people, but not just that he tells his "base" they are the best people in the world. These people are racists to the core, they don't just hate other races and ethnicities, they hate God for MAKING other races and ethnicities and Trump tells them they are correct in that, and that anyone not True Blue WASP "Murican is the origin of ALL their problems. Is it any wonder they love him so?

As an intellectual underpinning Trumpism is White Nationalist. They believe race is the major determinant of what makes nations and that America is the Hearth of the "Aryan" race. Whatever is good for the race is good for the nation, nothing else matters, and the best way to promote one race is to constantly bash all others. Whatever else Trump does he IS good at bashing people not like him

 

There is ample proof sir, but you avoid having to examine it. The public records of the US Patent Office provide huge amounts of proof, David Martin has exposed them, but you live under your rock somewhere and will not examine the proof.

That makes you just another American happily buying into what the Medical Industrial Complex tells you to buy.

We are worlds apart sir.

 

That does not prove any conspiracy.You state a subjective baseless opinion. If you are going to make an allegation as to pharmaceutical manufacturer price fixing, profiteering and fraurd you need to prove it. Saying "this is how it's always been done" means what. What it " it ". Who. When. Where. How. The examples you actually presented have no details and proof of anything. They are incomplete. For all anyone knows they were "run out of business" because what they were doing was dangerous, period. The fact that you refer to what they did as and I quote "run out of business" is also an interesting reference. It shows you define health care as a business so you project that on others. Did it ever occur to you the people who may have been responsible for stopping their practices did not precisely because they were not practicing according to proper and safe medical professional standards and instead subjecting people to damgerous procedures precisely so they could make money?

Midwives are a respected profession. They have self regulatory bodies that assure what they do is carefully regulated to protect the public. All health care professionals today are regulated by professional colleges that require they have malpractice insurance, pay a yearly membership fee and are publically accountable to the colleges for their behaviour, practices, public complaints, maintaining a code of ethics and pursuing yearly continuing education. In the past this was not done as efficiently as it was done today so when people claiming to be health care professionals did dangerous things sometimes there was no choice but to shut them down.

You make all kinds of incopplete allegations with no proof of any conspiracy.

In fact according to you, health care is a business and anyone should be able to do anything and if they are held accountable it must be a pharmaceutical manifacturer conspiring with evil police to shut them down...is that it. Police staking people out? Wow such persecution.

 

Are you familiar with the Vatican covering up reports of childhood sexual abuse?

It's not off-topic. It relates.

 

David Martin?

Can you please find a medical doctor, immunologist, pharmacologist, human biologist, chemist, virologist, internist who has done a medical study to prove Covid 19 vaccines do not work, are killing people, are part of a pharmaceutical conspiracy, or that hcq works? Can you. Can you present any medical evidence?

David Martin is not a scientist and his conspiracy theories have been repudiated:

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/08/new-plandemic-video-peddles-misinformation-conspiracies/

 

I am familiar with thousands of organizations whether they be non profit, profit, charitable, governmental, that have covered up things. And so? You make no sense. Because I am aware there are lawyers that do bad things and get disbarred does this mean we have no lawyers? That is precisely why we have state and provincial law bars or societies to regulate lawyers so that the public can be protected from bad ones.

Using your theory all pharmaceutical manufacturers are evil because you feel some have been evil or covered up. That is illogical and makes no sense.

Your group assumptions that if one person in a category is evil, all in that category are evil is illogical. They are only equally as evil if they engage in the exact same conduct which you have not proven.

Further you were provided medical studies. You have yet to provide one medical study to repudiate them. Those medical studies were done by physicians concerned about the welfare of their patients and making sure what they are giving them is safe. That is the whole point of peer review and medical clinical studies to protect the public from studies not done ethically and safely and with proper objective methodology to safeguard against bias.

Your argument is absurd. If doctors don't engage in such clinical studies you claim they rushed the drug and don't have enough evidence. Then when they do you argue its part of a conspiracy to cover up they don't work.

 

This thread has broken down to a few Covid 19 deniers trying to attach all their arguments to what is known as the Big Pharma conspiracy:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/272310471_The_Big_Pharma_conspiracy_theory

https://journal.emwa.org/good-pharma/the-big-pharma-conspiracy-theory/

On of the arguments you have seen one poster use is the argument of "cheapness". It was not expressed clearly by the poster as I doubt he even fully understands its origins but its an accusation that claims pharmaceutical companies will not engage in research and development of drugs to treat/cure diseases whose drugs won't give a high rate of profit. In fact it claims they will not develop drugs where the people buying the drug (markets) would be too small or too impoverished to generate a positive return on the investment in research or development. It is true if there is no demand for a drug or very little demand for a drug chances are it won't be a priority to be researched. That has nothing to do with conspiracy and everything to do with priorizing what illnesses require the most attention.

The contention hcq is cheaper to give then a Covid 19 vaccine so the Covid 19 Vaccine creators do not want it used is just out and out stupid. Hcq if it was to be used is not a vaccine. Its used to treat secondary symptoms not Covid 19. It would be used to address fevers, muscle aches, breathing problems not the virus itself. It does something completely different than the virus. Its not a competitive drug. If it does work it would be caled an adjunct therapy-its not you take hcq so you don't take the vaccine. Its not in competition. If anything the two would work together not opposite of one another.

The problem is the deniers on this board when told that will not slow down and understand what hcq if it had a benefit would be used for. They also did not slow down to comprehend the concern about using invermection is not that it will NOT work, but that it needs to be carefully studied in controlled clinical trials before it could be approved for wide spread use precisely to protect the public from ill effects.

If hcq had a benefit why would pharmaceutical companies not want it used? They would make profit. If they are only interested in profit, why would they not push it knowing it has no benefits? How are the doctors claiming it has no benefits making profit for the pharmaceutical companies who made4 it? That makes no sense.

Likewise with invermectin. Why would big pharma that would make profit from its expanded use as a Covid 19 treatment want to block that?

The irony is the very same conspiracy theorists that claim big pharma is preventing use of these drugs to protect their own products do not understand the products are not used in competition, i.e., one or the other, but together. More importantly if these big pharmas demanded we use hcq or invermection without proper research wouldn't these conspirators be the first to accuse them of rushing drug use through to make profit?

Where does this idiocy end?

In specific regard to the problem of researching and developing drugs with no big demand. those drugs are referred to as "orphan drugs". Whether conspirator deniers like it or not it costs money to research drugs and if that money can not be recovered from profit it has to come back from somewhere.

To try deal with that issue the United States government has tried to create incentives that make unprofitable investments profitable so to speak by passing the Orphan Drug Act of 1983 . That law was designed to provide incentives for the development of "orphan drugs" which are legally defined as drugs targeting the treatment of diseases "affecting less than 200,000 people in the US, or for which there is "no reasonable expectation" of profitability".

The other was to fund non profit organizations to do the above by the government. There is your conspiracy.

The second part of the conspiracy believes bug pharma deliberately develop drugs that treat, rather than cure diseases. So for example Pfizer created the treatment of high cholesterol medication called Lipitor which one has to take for the rest of their lives,rather than a single treatment that cures high serum cholesterol,one time.

Would it not dawn on certain people that you do not have to take the medication. You can simply get high cholesterol? Would it also not dawn on people if they think there are better ways to treat it they can no one is stopping them?

Would it not dawn on some people that certain people have genetic predispositions to high cholesterol no matter how much exercise or fat free diets they engage in and so they can eventually just die from it or take the medication or pursue whatever else they want to?

Do you think people with diabetes do not know insulin is not a cure or people who take chemotherapy and suffer severely from its side effects know its not a cure? Millions of people will not take medication for bi-polar disorder or schizophrenia. The law does not force them. The law does not force people to take seretonin uptake inhibitors a type of anti depressant.

No one forces you to take cold medication, aspirin or other anelgesics, antihistamines. You choose to. Why is it conspirators present the masses as all uneducated idiots being duped? Who is actually engaging in the conspiracy we are all idiots brainwashed and controlled by government and big pharma unless you are Eleuthera?

Can we get real. You want to refuse to take a Covid 19 vaccine do not. You want to take hcq and invermectin or any other cure or magic formula you think you found knock yourself out. Posing though as if you are in the know and the rest of us are brainwashed zombies is foolish.

 

The two leading journals got caught red handed publishing Fake Science to discredit HCQ.
IOW, the credibility of the opposition to HCQ has been impeached. Case closed. HCQ should have been a treatment option everywhere from day one.

"To better understand the mechanism by which these inhibitors exert their antiviral effects, we performed a time course assay in which the drugs were added at different times before or after infection (Fig. 6e). Cells were infected during a single cycle of infection at high multiplicity of infection (MOI = 2) over the course of 8 h, and the drugs were added either 2 h before infection or at 0, 2 or 4 h after infection. PB28, zotatifin and hydroxychloroquine all decreased the detection of the viral NP protein even in this single cycle assay, indicating that the antiviral effect occurs before viral egress from the cell (Fig. 6e). Furthermore, all three molecules inhibited NP expression when added up to 4 h after infection, after viral entry has occurred. Thus, these molecules seem to exert their antiviral effect during viral replication."
NATURE, A SARS-CoV-2 protein interaction map reveals targets for drug repurposing, David E. Gordon, Gwendolyn M. Jang, […]Nevan J. Krogan, Nature volume 583, pages 459–468(2020), Published: 30 April 2020. (bold is mine)
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41...d-id=61CF4C0767161E1D2B15C77665918141BC57D421

 

So why it is outside the realm of possibilities that in the HERE AND NOW the AMA is using its deep pockets to silence their competitors?

There isn't any reason for you to be mean.

That was a segue I didn't follow.

Post # please.
ALL of that is on you. I never once said that doctors or pharma manufacturers are "evil".

ALL of that is on you. I didn't do any of that.Post # please.

When did I say those studies were irrelevant?Post # please.

When did that happen? Post # please.

Post # please.

 

For people afraid of big pharma, government, doctors, you may wish to consider the below articles rather than assume I am brainwashed or others are for disagreeing with you:

https://www.sciencespo.fr/en/news/news/fear-in-the-time-of-pandemic/4884

https://www.apa.org/monitor/2015/03/fear

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7351412/

https://slate.com/technology/2021/01/conspiracy-theories-coronavirus-fake-psychology.html

 

Nothing in the above addresses the issue as to whether hcq is of benefit as a treatment. You are trying to write off an issue and medical studies as as that issue completely unrelated to the above is the same issue.

Then you again argue that the above means ALL science is corrupt.

The more you respond the less you make sense and the more you deflect from your inability to provide any evidence hcq is of benefit as a treatment.

 

Please stop making things up. No one has said that "ALL science is corrupt."

Focus: The Lancet and the NEJM were caught red handed publishing a paper based on fudged data and forced to retract.

"The journal’s editor, Richard Horton, said he was appalled by developments. “This is a shocking example of research misconduct in the middle of a global health emergency,” he told the Guardian."
THE GUARDIAN, Covid-19: Lancet retracts paper that halted hydroxychloroquine trials, By Sarah Boseley Health editor, June 5, 2020.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...s-paper-that-halted-hydroxychloroquine-trials

 

MJ Davies, you asked

"So why it is outside the realm of possibilities that in the HERE AND NOW the AMA is using its deep pockets to silence their competitors?"

Because simply put, the fact you believe something is possible does not make it a fact to justify your positions as you have.

You stated: " There isn't any reason for you to be mean." because I said " You make no sense". Saying you make no sense is not mean. Please dettach from your opinions. I am challenging your positiions and specifically in the context I used the above that what you failed to present any evidence to suggest pharmas or anyone else is involved in a conspiracy.

I also said it in reference to making no sense that your stories of midwives or doctors being "shut down from business" also did not prove any conspiracy. To make sense you would need to provide a factual basis for your conclusions between an actual conspiracy and then it causing the events you claim happened which you did not do.

You also asked a series of questions asking why I accused you of claiming conspiracy theories including a big pharma conspiracy. I inferred it from these two following references from you:

"Are you familiar with the Vatican covering up reports of childhood sexual abuse?
It's not off-topic. It relates."

and

"So this kind of "shutting out" isn't new with the onset of COVID. The AMA has deep, deep pockets and they are out to stop any and everybody from honing in on their "customers".
It's not off-topic. It relates."

If the above does not have to do with big pharma/government/medical community covering up oh please do explain why you raised the above.

Next You asked-when did I say those studies were irrelevant?Post # please."

If your point is not to argue the studies are irrelevant you sure as hell have not then explained how your conspiracy cover up theories were NOT advanced to those studies as coming from corrupt doctors.

More to the point why have you not asked the question you ask? Why do you come on the thread without any studies to show the ones I provided you were irrelevant?

How can you argue hcq is of benefit as a treatment otherwise and so how are your comments relevant to the thread if its not to advance conspiracy theories to smeer anyone who disagrees with you?

The issue was whether hcq is of benefit as a treatment and whether invermection should now be used as a treatment. That was the thread. Y

ou and Covid 19 deniers have advanced the conspiracy theories about government, pharma, the medical community to deflect from the studies not me. I keep asking you to address the studies if you think they are wrong and prove they are wrong. You have not. I didn't tell you to deflect and engage in smeering of the AMA.

I would contend there are sufficient references in your last three posts which I responded to that engage in conspiracy smeers against doctors and big pharma and government.

If you want to now claim you did not and you mean something else, sorry I go by what you raise in your words.

If you claim to have argued something else please clarify. Thank you.

 

You took a supposed study about whether hcq causes deaths to then argue any opposition to HCQ has been impeached. You said that not me. It necessarily means you reject the conventional medical community and its clinical studies that indicate hcq is of no benefit as a treatment.

You take a study that does not address whether hcq is of benefit of a treatment, then argue a flawed study of whether hcq kills means all medical studies that show hcq is of no benefit are impeached.

You not I took an unreleated study, pulled it from its actual subject context, then use it to try suggest all medical studies that say hcq is of no benefit as a treatment is impeached. You do this to again advocate" hcq should have been a treatment option from day one" knowing you have zero medical evidence to suggest it is of benefit as a treatment.

You most certainly have rejected all science to date on the topic of whether hcq is of benegfit and have none of your own . If science exists to show hcq is of benefit as a treatment put up or shut up who is stopping you?

It does NOT exist and that is why you keep responding with a deflection that has nothing to do with the issue you claim to address. Go on put it up and prove me wrong. Provide the scientific evidence its of benefit. How hard is that?

Yes I will keep pointing out your baseless deflection everytime you repeat it. Repeating something over and over unrelated to the issue you were asked to respond to won't make it any more legitimate. Either provide the evidence for your contention or move on.

Yourtrying to smeer all science to date, based on a flawed study of a topic that does not even address the issue of whether hcq is a beneficial treatment is pointless-it proves nothing other than you try take an unrelated issue and incident to infer a conspiracy to slur doctors who engaged medical studies that clearly showed hcq is not a beneficial treatment.