The Age of the universe?

The facts will be presented when we build the Third Temple exactly as described in the book of Ezekiel. Firstly, it will be proven that the dimensions of the Temple indicated in the prophecy are feasible and do not have internal contradictions. Secondly, it will be proven that the place that the prophet Ezekiel saw in his vision is a real place in the Judean desert. Ezekiel did not have the ability to make precise triangulation measurements of the 72 km long sections, but nevertheless, the dimensions of the sections indicated in Ezekiel's prophecy pointed us to the exact location where the ruins of the ancient altar are now discovered. This is the altar of Abraham, known as Jehovah-jireh. It is located exactly in the geometric center of the koanim plot, the size of the plot is 72 km from north to south, and 28.8 km from east to west. This section cannot be moved to the side even by half a kilometer; its position in Israel is limited by the Dead Sea, the Mediterranean Sea and the borders of the historical part of Jerusalem. Ezekiel did not have the technical ability to make such measurements. We have now used satellite imagery to make precise measurements. The lengths of the stream bed, where the depths change abruptly, coincided exactly with the measurements in Ezekiel in the 47th chapter. The entire description in Ezekiel paints a real picture of what will be built. And this will be the proof of God. The elect from the four winds will appear in this Temple, and then judgment will take place on the rest of the world and on the prodigal Christian denominations, which with their divisions crucified the Body of Christ. We do not need to argue with unbelievers to prove the truth of the Bible. Jesus Christ proved God through his death and subsequent resurrection. Likewise, the Second Coming of Christ will be proven - by the construction of the Temple, the appearance of the saints - and the resurrection in the city of Yahweh Shammah, which will be built in Israel after the construction of the Temple.

 

According to critical scholars, the text of Ezekiel is among the most corrupt of the Bible. That technical passages (e.g., the account of the divine vehicle, the list of Tyre's merchandise, the Temple blueprint) – at best difficult to understand – should have suffered in transmission is not surprising. However, poetry too has been garbled (cf. chs. 7; 21). The Greek ("Septuagint") often provides a remedy, but at the same time raises new questions because of its frequently shorter text. In the light of the Greek, the received Hebrew text appears conflate – i.e., it exhibits variants, synonymous readings, and tags that have been collected from several versions of the prophet's words. The texts of Ezekiel and Jeremiah were peculiarly susceptible to expansion and the addition of tags owing to the fact that they are very formulaic, their idiom being modeled upon the two most highly stylized and formulaic works of early Israelite tradition – the pentateuchal priestly writings and Deuteronomy respectively.

On occasion, allusions to events later than the prophecies that contain them indicate post-event touching up (see, e.g., on ch. 12, above). Since none reflects events later than the last-dated item in the book (see below), the assumption that someone other than the prophet is responsible for them is unnecessary.

Recurrently, a piece will show a juncture at which a breakdown in form (20), a skewing of theme (16; 23; 34), or change of mood (17) appears. Repetitions (see on ch. 33), discontinuities, and erratic blocks (38–39; 40–4 argue against the originality and integrity of a piece. But whether such phenomena point to another hand rather than to later reflections or editorial activity of the prophet himself is a matter of dispute among critics. The common assumption that a circle of disciple-transmitters existed who had a large part in the shaping of the present text and its disjunctures lacks any evidential basis. Jewish virtual library.

concerning the words the land of Moriah, Robert Harris, a professor of ancient languages in an excellent web publication from 2006 tells us that the translation is actually the land of THE Moriah. He also gives us the medieval interpreter Rashbam’s opinion that God was sending Abraham to the Amorites. Professor Harris does not claim to give us any clear facts, which is understandable (since there aren’t any) but he does give a short discussion of Moriah from an important (and very old) Jewish commentary. https://www.jtsa.edu/torah/examining-the-word-moriah/

So, what do we have now? We know the threshing floor of Ornan (or Araunah, see First Chronicles) was named Mount Moriah according to Ezra the writer of Second Chronicles, and that Solomon built the temple there. We have the traditional narrative (repeated by Josephus in the first century AD) that the temple was built on the site of Abraham’s intended sacrifice of Isaac. Then, we know the Samaritans claim their land to be the land of Moriah and their mountain of Gerazim to be the sacrificial site. Further, we have the translation (in the foregoing paragraph) that speaks of the land of THE Moriah.
Now, some folks hold fiercely to a tradition that the Temple Mount was the place Abraham brought his son Isaac intending to sacrifice him to the Lord. But, we need to consider that we still don’t know for certain where the land of Moriah was, let alone the mountain where it all took place. Further, and more importantly, we need to consider that the Temple Mount is a mere one third of a mile (or less) from the City of David, which at the time of Abraham’s sacrifice was an inhabited settlement, the walled city of Salem. We know Abraham had been there before and was already acquainted with Melchizedek, king and priest of that city. Melchizedek had come down out of Salem bringing bread and wine to Abraham in the valley of Shaveh as he was returning from the battle of Siddim. (Genesis 14:18-20) The Temple Mount location, so near the city of Salem, within shouting distance even, seems very unlikely.

So where is that mountain that Abraham saw afar off? Obviously the answer can not be found in the Bible. Is there a preponderance of extrabiblical evidence that gives a clear answer to that question? Not that I have found. But I have found some scholarly folk who admit not knowing where it was the Lord sent Abraham. Regardless of that, by the first century AD certain suppositions about this event were already beginning to solidify. Josephus, the Jewish historian from that era wrote that the temple was built on the site of Abraham’s near sacrifice of his son. (The Antiquities of The Jews, Book 1, Chapter 13, Section 2, Paragraph 226) Josephus can be counted a reliable source reporting the events he actually saw and lived through; but, can he be expected to give a first hand account of an event 2,000 years before his time. Of course not.

But, there are certain things people want to believe. It sounds right. It seems right. Grandma said it. It must be so. It is here we come up against an immovable stone — the rock of tradition — can we ever chip it all away?

 

To build the Temple, it is enough to understand chapters 40-48. This has already been done; the Septuagint is not needed. In one verse I had to turn to one of the variants of the Masoretic text.

King David persistently called the site of the future altar “the threshing floor of Orna the Jebusite.” Who is Orna to mention him if David knew that this place in the Torah is called “the land of Moriah”? Conclusion: King David did not know that the place indicated to him by the angel was the “land of Moriah.” "Mount Moriah" appeared in legend later, when Chronicles was written. "Mount Moriah" and "land of Moriah" are different places.

Abraham could not manage to travel from Beersheba to Jerusalem in 2 days. A donkey loaded with firewood cannot travel 100 km in two days, especially since there are passes there. In reality, a loaded donkey will walk 25 kilometers a day. Donkeys have a very strong instinct of self-preservation, more than a horse. You cannot force a donkey to walk more than he considers an acceptable load.

Another argument is that Abraham could not have attempted to perform a human sacrifice in front of an ancient settlement: spectators would have gathered there.

Third, we found this scattering of stones on the southern slope of the mountain. And there is a natural inscription on the mountainside, from the beds of streams: yod-shin-vav-ain, YESHUA.



It is quite possible that as a result of archaeological excavations, fossilized horns of a ram, about 4000 years old, and fragments of an expensive bronze knife from the Middle Bronze Age will be found in that place. Because Abraham had to destroy the knife after the sacrifice.

But even without this, there is more than enough evidence.

 

There's no evidence for :

the existence of Abraham through to Moses.
the exodus.
Joshua's invasion of Palestine.

All we have is the Bible which you admit is full of allegories and mythical stories.

Those stories are so full of errors they disprove themselves. You should listen to Israel Finkelstein the Israeli archaeologist. He will show you why. Practices that weren't around at the time. Things that could not have happened at thst time. Language that was not around at that time. etc. etc. Abraham would have been Sumerian and spoke that language. He would not have been able to converse with Pharaoh in Egyptian nor would any Pharaoh have been interested in any 70 year old woman, however lovely she might have been. The customs of the time would have not allowed it. The Hebrew was not in existence ubtil much later. I've explained some things on here but you refuse to accept it.

 

I was addressing a post regarding God, not challenging science. I view life, science and the increases in the sciences as gifts from God, passed thru all former generations by degree of increase to this one into which I was born. But what's most important to me is how I live life and treat others.

 

Finkelstein is an atheist and a leftist, why should I listen to him? I read what he writes. Adam Zertal found the altar of Joshua, and leftist professors think that there was an ancient cannery there on the mountain, that's why there are so many bones. The date of the Exodus is determined by the “voices of the seven thunders.” The sequence of the Yovel of Israel was restored. 7 jubilees years coincided with 7 significant events in the history of Jews and Christians: (1) the 20th jubilee - the words of Nehemiah about the return of the land to those returning from captivity, (2) the 30th jubilee - the decision of the Council in Jerusalem on freedom from the Mosaic Law for Christians - pagans, (3) 37th jubilee - death of the Church, decrees of Theodosius, (4) 40th jubilee - burial of the Church, tombstone, Hagia Sophia. (5) 60th jubilee - Reformation, Luther's theses and Zwingli's sermon, (6) 66th jubilee - Napoleon's campaign against Russia (a prototype of the Antichrist), (7) 67th jubilee - liberation of slaves in the USA and Russia. Moses fled into the desert in 1503 BC (Queen Hatshepsut carried out a coup d'état, removing Thutmose III, trying to save Moses), the Exodus was in 1463 BC, when Thutmose III died. The crossing of the Jordan under the leadership of Joshua took place in 1423 BC. The 70th Yovel occurred on Tishrei 1, 2008 (September 29), and was marked by a historical record drop in the Dow Jones of 777 points.

If we add the 50 jubilees from the book of Jubilees, then this is the 120th jubilee year from the creation of Adam.

 

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The fact that Finkelstein may be an athiest - I don't know. He is a recognised wuthority on Israel archeaology - regardless of whether you believe him.

The most famous of these foot-shaped sites—also called sandalim and gilgalim—is on Mt. Ebal. This site was discovered by Adam Zertal and his survey team in 1980 and subsequently excavated from 1982–1989. There they uncovered a large altar, which was built of unhewn stones. The altar can be divided into two strata—both dated to the Iron Age I. The earlier level was built on bedrock and had a depression in its middle. Charred animal bones and ash were found inside this depression. Belonging to the later level was a monumental altar, measuring 23 by 30 feet and 10 feet tall, with a 23-foot long ramp leading up to it. This altar was filled with bones, many of which had been burned, ash and Iron Age I pottery.


After excavations, Adam Zertal identified the Mt. Ebal site as cultic in nature, and he made the controversial claim that the altar on Mt. Ebal was the Biblical altar to which Joshua 8:30 refers. There was much opposition to this view, and although Hawkins addresses it in his article, we do not have space to cover it all here. In summary, although many still reject this as the Biblical altar referenced in Joshua 8:30, others think there might be a relationship between it and the Biblical tradition. Further, many now accept the cultic nature of the Mt. Ebal site. Israeli archaeologist Amihai Mazar writes, “Zertal may be wrong in the details of his interpretation, but it is tempting to accept his view concerning the basic cultic nature of the site and its possible relationship to the Biblical tradition.”1 Anyone interested in other scholarly opinions about the Mt. Ebal site and its altar should read Hawkins’s full article.

NOTE. Bible tradition. By tradition does not mean it is true. Most of the bible authors are 'by tradition' but it is known that they were not written, or completely written - by the named author..

The purpose of the other foot-shaped sites has also been debated. Because of the scarcity of pottery and lack of buildings at these sites, they were not likely to have been dwelling places. At first glance, they look like they might have been animal pens, but Hawkins rules out this interpretation because of the large size of these enclosures and the high quality of their construction. Along those same lines, he also discounts the possibility that they served agricultural purposes. Hawkins concludes that these sites are “unique and appear to have been built by semi-nomads who used a pottery repertoire similar to that of the new population group that entered Canaan from the east at this time [Iron Age I].” The foot-shaped sites may have served as gathering places for the semi-nomads, and it is possible that they had a cultic purpose as well—similar to the Mt. Ebal site. Since the pottery at the foot-shaped sites matches the pottery of the new population entering Canaan—a group that some have identified as the Israelites—some believe that these foot-shaped sites are Israelite settlements.

At one point, Adam Zertal proposed that the foot-shaped sites uncovered during the Manasseh Hill Country Survey be called gilgalim because of the term’s connotation as a gathering place. Other than this common name and similar function—as gathering places—is there a deeper connection between the mysterious foot-shaped sites in the Jordan Valley and the Biblical gilgalim? Are they one and the same?

For the time being, we cannot say one way or the other whether these sites are the gilgalim mentioned in the Bible and if they provide evidence of the Israelites settling the Promised Land. Perhaps future archaeological discoveries will settle the matter.

NOTE the bold underlined. According to the Bible the Israelites were never in one place to build such constructions

The whole matter is irrelevant as the Israelites were never in Egypt. Many Canaanite tribes were nomadic, wandering from place to place for food for their animals and to trade and many ventured into the Nile Delta.

 

Great!

Judaism, Christianity and Islam are all based on the Bible, so just on the basis of popularity it deserves some respect and understanding.

 

It's still just a book written by men, for men, about men with numerous contradictions and inconsistencies and scientific untruths.

 

I fully respect your view here.

 

It's a book with messages deeply respected by more than 4 billion people today.

Any well educated person should know what is in it, why it is respected, why it has so much influence even if they do not share beliefs.

Also, it's pretty questionable to judge works of history and philosophy by how well the people of that time understood physics.

In science history we laud forebears who made important contributions even when they clearly made blunders they should have recognized as such.

 

Scriptures contain, laws, commandments and warnings. That's why you prefer Tolkein's fantasies. I agree that the Hobbit series is a fantastic adventure.

 

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I vote for Shakespeare’s writings.

 

Ironically, both Tolkien and Shakespeare were believers in the Bible.

 

So. Our laws and justice system was written by men, for men, and about men, with numerous contradictions, inconsistencies, and scientific untruths. But prisoners still have to come to grips with what they've done, or at least they should.

 

But laws and justice systems are for the time they were set up and need to be updated.The Bible was written for a time and generation in the distant past. There are some things that never change but mostly society needs to keep up-to-date. As with the US Constitution. In the UK we have an unwritten constitution that is updated when necessary by Parliament. We no longer need pistols to combat highwaymen.
The same applies with the Bible. To teach a Bible as the 'inspired word of god' when it is proven to have all the aforementioned problems is just deceiving people. All the main religions and sects are simply deceiving people with their teachings.

 

You are getting stuck in the brambles. The thrust of scripture is that all men sin or break the law. So we all owe repentance. Justice also requires punishment or sacrifice and restitution. Being imperfect, we cannot meet that requirement. That's where Jesus Christ applies in answering the demands of justice. God essentially did our time for us and paid our debts. That is if we accept his offering. Otherwise we'll have to suffer as did he. But it will be forever because we cannot satisfy the demands of justice due to our imperfections. Jesus Christ is the only way or name under heaven whereby we might find salvation from the law. God actually suffered this for us. Because all men have broken perfect and eternal laws, justice requires a perfect and eternal sacrifice. That was Jesus Christs mission, the lamb slain from the foundation of the world. Along with his Fathers spirit, he left heaven, took upon himself flesh on this mortal stage, and shook the gates of hell from the inside, breaking it apart and freeing the prisoners.

How is it that we've become so backwards and contrary, and God so right. Will we now say, oh yes of course. we've always known this, thus robbing God of our affection and his honor and glory due. We all know that our time is short, and the day of judgment awaits. It is to that finality that scriptures make reference. So they apply till the end of the earth rather than confined to a small tribe in a little place thousands of years ago in time. Has God ceased to be God? Has the sword of justice ceased to hang over us. Has God ceased to be merciful and stay his hand. Are we perfect

Is it that we are great because men have gone out this way and that way and filled the earth? Has justice ceased and the laws dissolved. Or have we merely covered the earth with that from which there is no escape.

 

All the above is simply your own belief. Words in a book. If those words had not been written there would have been no Christian etc religion. Words in a book that have been shown erroneous, mythical etc. There is no evidence that Jesus was anything but a Jewish preacher except words in book. Words which I have shown are misinterpreted scriptures from the OT and stories that conflict with one another.

We all know our time is short. . Period. That's the way we have evolved. There is no proof of any judgement except in a book. Everything you have written depends on belief in a god that has never been seen or experienced - despite what you say. You need something to believe in. Most of us acknowledge we are not perfect but are self sufficient. We don't need a Trump to dictate our lives.

 

For you to seek a perfect understanding of Jewish scripture, and then declare that there is no perfect God is contradictory in concept, suggestive of the frivolity of your quest. At any rate, the scriptures go to calling man to prepare for judgment. But the choice is ours. We know we sin. At that we know that judgment is coming by our acknowledgement of our sins. Reason then points to God

 

Of course I seek to understand Jewish scriptures, that doesn't mean I agree with them. How can I discuss them if I don't understand them? That doesn't mean I believe them. I don't believe there's a god despite what any scriptures say. Just as I don't believe Harry Potter had the magical powers given him by J.K.Rowling.
There's wisdom in the Bible but that doesn't make it inspired neither does it prove there's a god. You believe judgement is coming because of our sins because the Bible tells you. An understanding of Jewish scripture tells us that Jews believe they are responsible for their own sins and make atonement for themselves on a yearly basis. Jesus was a Jew who would have understood and practised this belief from his early years with his parents. He practised other festivals - especially Passover. If you understand Jewish scriptures and practises it is obvious that the nativity stories are simply made up - proved by their contradictions. But that doesn't interest you, you simply prefer to believe what you are told.
If you understand Jewish practises of the time concerning young peoples education - especially male children - it becomes fairly clear the Jesus who - we are told - impressed the priests etc at the Temple with his knowledge, went on to 'further' education as was the custom with exceptional males at the age of 13 (adulthood). This was the way that olderteachers/ Rabbis were replaced In his ministry he is recognised as 'teacher' and 'Rabbi' several times. His learning was equal to, and often surpassed the religious people of his day.
Jesus ewas simoly an exceptional teacher - nothing more. He was hated by the religious heirarchy for exposing their Hypocrisy - much to the pleasure of the people who suffered because of it.

You really don't understand but criticise.

 

What I understand is that you've written God out of the scriptures. You have even told me that I don't know what I know about God in my own personal life's experience. So you write him out of my own testimony, and chalk my mention of God up to fantasy or a contrivance. In your mind, there is no God. And that is the biggest fantasy going about.

 

I haven't wrtten god out of the scriptures. Man simply put him there. 'God' is a far earlier creation than the Bible scriptures. Created by man back before known ancient istory. Just one example are the early Egyptian therianthrope gods developed from ancient cave drawings. Also used by the Greeks and Romans in their stories. The idea of one god has never been universal. The Jews turned to one god - Jahweh - in the Babylonian exile.Previous to this they worshipped other gods, including El - Jahwehs father. In chosing Jahweh thEY added all the attributes of El to Jahweh THE GOD JESUS WORSHIPPED. Other religions TODAY still retain other gods. God was created by primitive man who lacked the science we have tody.

 

I don't try to write God out your testimony. I just point out that there is no corroboration of your testimony. You can testify to YOUR "experience" with God all you want, without outside corroboration I have no reason to believe it.