Discussion in 'Russia & Eastern Europe' started by Kris P. Bacon, Jun 19, 2022.
Yes, apparently we disagree on what the word 'Stalemate" means.
a situation in which further action or progress by opposing or competing parties seems impossible.
"the war had again reached stalemate"
Ukraine Conflict Updates
Russian Offensive Campaign Assessment, January 6, 2023
Click here to read the full report.
Russian officials and milbloggers largely did not react to the US announcement of more than $3.75 billion in new military assistance to Ukraine.
Russian officials and milbloggers continued to respond negatively to Russian President Vladimir Putin’s January 5 ceasefire announcement as hostilities continued in Ukraine on January 6.
Certain hardline elements of the Russian information space seized on Putin’s statement to propagate the narrative that Putin is a protector of religious values.
Prominent Russian milbloggers continue to use their platforms to advocate for the eradication of Ukrainian cultural and ethnic identity.
Russian and Ukrainian forces continued offensive operations near Kreminna and Svatove.
Russian sources claimed that Russian forces made gains in Soledar as Russian offensive operations continued around Bakhmut and the Avdiivka-Donetsk City area.
Russian authorities and military leaders continue to face backlash for their responses to the December 31 Ukrainian strike on a Russian base in Makiivka, Donetsk Oblast.
Russian forces and occupation authorities are continuing to target Ukrainian children to consolidate social control in occupied territories. . . . .
Ukrainian troops continued to defend positions northeast and south of Bakhmut on January 6. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Ukrainian troops repelled Russian attacks on Bakhmut itself; northeast of Bakhmut near Spirne (30km northeast), Soledar, Krasna Hora (5km north); and south of Bakhmut near Klishchiivka (7km southwest) and Kurdyumivka (13km southwest). The Ukrainian State Border Guards Service emphasized that Ukrainian forces neutralized a Russian grenade launch point in the Bakhmut direction to prevent preparations for another Russian counterattack in the area. Russian milbloggers continued to discuss fighting to the south and northeast of Bakhmut. . . .
Ukrainian forces continue to strike Russian positions in rear areas of southern Ukraine. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Ukrainian forces struck Russian forces in Havrylivka Druha, Kherson Oblast on January 5, seriously injuring 100 Russian servicemembers. Russian milbloggers claimed on January 6 that Ukrainian forces shelled Oleshky and Kakhovka in Kherson Oblast as well as Tokmak and Dorozhnianka in Zaporizhia Oblast. A Kherson Oblast Telegram channel amplified local reports on January 6 that residents heard explosions in the vicinity of Radensk, Kherson Oblast. Ukrainian Berdyansk Head Viktoria Halitsyna reported on January 6 that residents heard 11 explosions in Berdyansk, Zaporizhia Oblast. . . .
And this was your previous description of a stalemate:
"a situation in which further action or progress by opposing or competing parties seems impossible"
That would be mutual exhaustion, as I said.
Then why were you disagreeing with this statement?
Because a stalemate would be an outcome, not a goal.
You literally said that stalemate was victory.
So to repeat myself, that's not much of a "victory" if it leaves Russia occupying Ukrainian territory.
My advice would be for you to quit while you're behind but something tells me you are going to keep tangling yourself in knots.
You don't understand the argument. Russia was strategically defeated at the outset of the war (as I posted at the time). Russia's actions ensured that Ukraine will be western-oriented and drawn to both NATO and the EU. Meanwhile, NATO has grown (Sweden, Finland) and become more unified. Those are strategic defeats for Russia regardless of territory.
So the "argument" isn't about the Ukraine war at all, since your "victory" still leaves parts of Ukraine occupied by Russia. Good to hear! Now we can stop paying for Zelensky's wife's shopping trips!
You really should have quit while you were behind!
There are many types and layers of victory. Complete defeat of Russia and complete liberation of Ukraine remain possible and worth fighting for. A resounding, smashing defeat of Russia would pay dividends for freedom everywhere.
Crimean Property Prices Crash As Ukraine War Hits Home
There will be no Ukraine, forget it! We will eliminate this annoying misunderstanding, the product of Lenin's activity
Yes but we were not debating the definition of victory but stalemate. "Complete defeat of Russia and complete liberation of Ukraine" may happen, but not when there is a stalemate.
That is correct and was never debated.
Russia plans to mobilize 500,000 soldiers in days. If they don't deliver victory, then 'Putin will collapse,' says Ukrainian spy chief.
Causes a smile
Yes, and . . . ? Do you not understand the issues?
Ukraine Conflict Updates
Russian Offensive Campaign Assessment, January 7, 2023
Click here to read the full report.
Recent Russian gains in Soledar do not portend an imminent Russian encirclement of Bakhmut.
Russia continues to weaponize religion to perpetuate long-standing information operations and discredit Ukraine.
Russian forces reportedly continue to deplete their missile arsenal and stock of Iranian-made drones but will likely continue to threaten Ukrainian infrastructure at scale in the near term.
Russian and Ukrainian forces continued offensive operations near Svatove and Kreminna.
Russian forces made marginal confirmed advances in Soledar amid continuing Russian offensive operations around Bakhmut and along the western outskirts of Donetsk City.
Russian forces continue efforts to establish further control over the Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant (ZNPP).
Ukrainian and European officials continue to warn that Russia is preparing for an imminent second wave of mobilization.
Russian occupation authorities continue to transport Ukrainian children to Russian territory under the guise of medical rehabilitation schemes. . . .
Russian and Ukrainian forces continued offensive operations near Svatove on January 7. . . .
Russian and Ukrainian forces continued offensive operations near Kreminna on January 7. . . .
Russian military leadership continues to experience challenges with maintaining the morale of mobilized servicemen. A Russian mobilization Telegram channel posted video footage on January 7 in which previously mobilized servicemen of Belgorod Oblast asked to go home after stating that Russian leadership sent them to the territory of the Donetsk People’s Republic (DNR) as cannon fodder. A Russian source claimed on January 8 that mobilized servicemen of the 568th Howitzer Artillery Battalion, now subordinate to the DNR’s 1st Army corps, complained that their command is transferring them into an infantry role for which they were not trained. Independent Georgia-based investigative organization Conflict Intelligence Team reported on January 6 that several mobilized Russian servicemen training in Belarus escaped from their unit and stated that the servicemen are on a wanted list in Minsk Oblast. . . .
Clearly better than you!
That does not appear to be the case. There are different types and levels of victory, just as there are different routes to stalemate. And a stalemate leaving Ukraine independent and free to chart its own course, even if diminished in territory, would be a strategic victory for Ukraine and a strategic defeat for Russia. That would not, however, be the largest imaginable victory for Ukraine.
Well that's moving the goalposts!
Nope. That's been my position from the beginning. Please see #521.
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