The Alternative Ukraine Thread

Mike I. have had enough of you claiming I said something that I did not. I showed you copies of my words. I am done with this game.

 

My view is that an audit process should have been integral in all "aid packages". The fact that this came at this time is partisan and political. Good idea wrong motivation.

 

Yes of course, "people are saying..."

Do you understand that being "anti-Ukraine" isn't the same thing as distributing "Moskva propaganda?" To you this is blood and soil, but to many others it's simply not relevant to American national interest. It's not "Moskva propaganda" to support American national interest.

 

If some entity such as a network “journalist” or host such as say Tucker Carlson or Shaun Vanity distributed Kremlin propaganda that was lying about the US are you claiming that is not an anti American act? I of course
support American National interests and you cannot find any quote from me that says I don’t. Except for some extreme ultra partisans / ideologues / isolationists from both ends of the political spectrum most reasonable people understand that supporting Ukraine in the war of Russian aggression is in support of American interests.

 

Don't you think it crazy that oversight and audit has not just been a standard part of any aid package? Why do you think that has been the case?

Isn't a good idea, still a good idea? The fact that people are opposing this "good idea" merely because of political timing being bad for "their guy" is even moreso partisan and political.

 

If you are going to claim that Carlson or Hannity(who's pro Ukraine war???) are distributing "Kremlin propaganda" could you, at long last, demonstrate some proof of that crazy claim?

 

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I have stated more than once that oversight should be integral to all aid packages for all countries whether their name starts with a ‘A’ or a ‘Z’ or any letter of our alphabet that lay in between.

 

Carlson is anti Ukraine and pro Russian. The last few times I saw Shaun’s show he mouthed negation things about Ukraine. What exactly do you mean by “who's pro Ukraine war???) ”. The way I take that is that you are saying that he is pro Russia’s war against Ukraine.

 

Are you saying that Hannity is supporting Russia in the war?

 

I caught his show a couple three times in the past couple months and I recall that he sounded anti Ukrainian and pro Putin so I changed networks.
Are you saying that he is against Russia and the war against Ukraine?

 

Well you've watched his show more than I have, so you should be the expert. However I googled and this is what I found.

Sean Hannity's take on the Ukraine crisis involves Putin being assassinated and NATO bombing Russia's military convoy

That sounds straight up Lindsay Graham territory to me.

 

So why do you think something that is so obviously necessary has been routinely left out of aid packages in the past? I think I have a pretty good idea why, but I'd be interested in your opinion.

 

I wonder why myself. Could be some politicians did not want to have their favorite countries scrutinized. Or certain aid packages may have been beneficial to certain favorite companies of certain politicians. Or politicians did not want the voters to delve too deep into how much we are spending on aid.

 

I don't think this has anything to do with taking sides, supporting Western and Central Ukraine
against Eastern and Southern Ukraine who then need support from Russia because the US is
training and arming Western and Central Ukraine.

That may be the situation, but the purpose is a lot simpler.

We need somewhere to test our new weapons systems, and an advanced enemy to test them against.

 

Yes. Probably all of those to some degree. My suspicion is that, in practice, a significant percentage of "aid" does not actually go to the cause that taxpayers are told it is meant for. Instead, it goes into the personal pockets of the various foreign elites involved, and then some percentage of that graft gets laundered right back into the family coffers of our own elites who draft the aid packages with no oversight. Transparency would put an abrupt end to that gravy train, and no one in charge of aid legislation wants that. We taxpayers foot the bill, and we should all demand complete "every dollar" audits of foreign aid, regardless of who those audits will hurt politically.

 

I cannot blame you for that suspicion. I am also a suspicious. We have problems right here also in that I suspect that a portion of political contributions go to politicians for other than for the campaigns. I strongly know that it happens in both parties. Hell nothing new we had corruption even during the Revolutionary war.
Shame to say Benedict Arnold was from my home state.

 

...when is it ever different when money is involved....that's not a justification just a reality.....

 

This was obviously done for morale boosting purposes, it has no practical purposes in my humble opinion. Even as an American of Ukrainian descent I have no vote on the matter only an opinion. Since it was paid for by private funds I do agree with what the Ukrainians did.

Will Putin order missiles or “smart bombs “ to be used to try and destroy this Ukrainian symbol? I guess it depends if he is getting bored with hitting maternity hospitals, kindergartens, churches, schools, senior citizen homes etc.
xx
https://kyivindependent.com/tryzub-replaces-hammer-and-sickle-on-motherland-statues-shield/

Ukraine's coat of arms raised onto Motherland monument's shield

Ukraine's the shield of the coat of arms with Ukraine’s symbol the Trident was raised onto the Motherland monument replacing the Soviet communist shield.
by The Kyiv Independent news desk
August 6, 2023 11:29 AM

The coat of arms of Ukraine with the Tryzub (Trident) replaced the the Soviet hammer and sickle on the Motherland Monument on August 6in Kyiv, Ukraine. The monument is expected to be completed by August 24 Ukrainian Independence Day.

The Ukrainian parliament outlawed most Soviet and communist symbols, street names, and monuments as part of decommunization policies back in 2015 since the Motherland statue is a World War II monument, it was exempted by parliament at that time. Obviously Putin’s criminal attack on Ukraine changed that sentiment.