The border bill... excuses and more excuses...

Well I didn't need Trump to know it was crap. I knew it long before Trump said anything. If it had been a good bill I would support it regardless of what Trump says.

The point: Trump really has nothing to do with this, in spite of your inability to get a post out without mentioning "Trump."

So...the purpose of the bill being "bipartisan" was to try to get something on the border while you Democrats got your war money. I wasn't concerned about funding your wars, but I was willing to do it if I got something too. However McConnell made sure that didn't happen. You can't detail pro amnesty GOP senators to negotiate with Democrats on immigration without it being a train wreck, and so it was. So the "bipartisan" bill was a major defeat for Republican voters and a major success for Democratic officeholders. So you won. Congratulations. Except now it looks like support for the bill has collapsed, so thanks to your bipartisanship it was a total waste of time.

 

I do not know of any republican that wants to stop legal crossings.

 

I don't know if the bill is crap or not. But, just to clarify, the point of this thread is that REPUBLICANS believe it would work. And it's BECAUSE they believe it will work that they vote against it. Trump has to do with this because he gave the order to his lackeys. I doubt he even understands the bill. He doesn't have the brains. But he understands that it would remove from the campaign the one issue they feel they have left. If Biden fixes the situation at the border (or makes it more manageable), they would have nothing to run on. So he just came out and said "Blame me!"

So, bottom line: Republicans have as much... or if you prefer, as little interest in solving the border problem as Democrats. But here is an opportunity to make SOME progress, if anybody is interested. If Democrats win Congress big in November (and I have a feeling they will), I would expect this to go back to waaaay at the bottom of their list of priorities. So if there is ANYTHING whatsoever in this bill that they would like to see, they might want to do it now. If there is nothing... then nothing is lost. Except that immigration WILL become a positive talking point for democrats for November.

 

All kinds of stuff goes through our ports of entry.

That's the primary method for drugs to enter - right through the ports of entry.

 

One of the things that lefties cannot seem to understand that the Republican and Democratic parties are not two sides of the same coin, they are fundamentally different. AS you said, "Republicans have as much... or if you prefer, as little interest in solving the border problem as Democrats." But when you say Republicans, what you mean are Republican officeholders. For Republican voters it's a major if not THE major issue this election year.

For Democrats, it's safe to say that both officeholders and voters are largely united in having little interest in solving the border because for Democrats, it's largely solved. This was the outcome they desired. That was pretty obvious by having Biden rip off the fragile band-aids that was holding down the lid on the border the first day of office. Biden could "solve" the border crisis on his own by undoing his own first day actions, but why should he? His party wants this.

The only Democrats who are upset about the border are the ones who are discovering for the first time what being a sanctuary community really means, but they are a minority of Democrats.

 

So, your stand on this is "if the Republicans want it, I oppose it". Very principled and patriotic.
The biggest excuse is that it's an expensive, ineffective PoS bill. Doesn't do squat until 5000 illegals are allowed in per day - Almost 2 million per year catch and release. . The it has US citizens PAY FOR legal costs of illegals.

 

Absolutely! And this whole episode is evidence. I said it in the OP. This is not a choice between A on the right vs B on the left. This is about the right WANTING A, Democrats saying yes, and Republicans realizing that if A works, they'll have nothing to run on.

That's the thing.... Before this episode, I might have agreed with you. Now... I'm not so sure. They have an opportunity to do something that THEY believe would work. But they keep making up excuses.

And this is just ANOTHER example. I don't know what Republicans stand for. They oppose abortion because they SAY they're "pro-life", but then they turn around and deny children healthcare.

I don't mean you. As far as I know you might be one of the last few principled conservatives. But I see the base turning more and more to become a sort of "cult" of their leaders.

No. I think it's a problem. Just not a priority.

I cannot deny this is an outcome that benefits democrats politically. I'm not sure if it was expected when they started negotiating it in the Senate, though.

I don't know what "band-aids" you're talking about. The President had broad powers when there was a national emergency. Those ceased when Congress ended the emergency last April (May?). And, of course, Biden was not particularly interested. But House Republicans obviously felt that it would be to their advantage to create a border crisis. It backfired.

Yeah... It's a drag to have to manage the new immigrants trying to adapt. But once they adapt, they are a source of great wealth for the country. Most democrats understand this, and most republicans don't.

 

That does not change the facts. I know of no republican who wants to stop legal immigration through our points of entry.

 

- Dems wanted Ukraine funding - it's in there. GOP wanted "remain in Mexico" Dems didn't - it's not in there. Can you try and be a little more factual and a little less partisan? Rhetorical question - the answer is obvious.

WHO believed it would work? The 5000 per day was a non-starter on the left from the beginning.

Mindless slogan. It's far more complicated than. And I think YOU know that but can't break the death grip partisan has on your reasoning powers.

Irony much?


REMAINDER deleted

 

Democrats know $60BILLION in Ukraine aid is a nonstarter.
Johnson told them, no aid for Ukraine until the border is fixed.
Democrats decided they'd tie the ukraine payoff with border nonsense and a) get their payoff for the big guy and b) keep the border open.

They failed and now they are trying to blame republicans.
Fail.

Every president before biden has managed to pretty much keep control of the border. Three of them saw fit to close the border.
Not Biden. He needs his payoff for Ukraine, not a secure border.

 

The other admitted "reason" is that Trump does not want Biden to have any successes during this election period. That is low , by anyone's standards.
Biden is proving to be an exceptional POTUS, as the obstacles thrown at him from Trump et al, are very counter productive. Biden is working for the nation. Trump is working for himself being so simple and small minded that he is. Trumps obstructive behavior just complicates any attempt to solve the problems that exist. Then Trump can call Biden a failure. ( having contributed to it himself ) What is sad is that his tribe will support any bizarre and counterproductive conduct he engages in.

 

So your saying biden is perfect then.

 

You guys want the berlin wall on our southern border, not gonna happen.

 

Every border Bill Democrats have come up with is great if you're an illegal immigrant, but not so great for American taxpayers who actually want to see some effort not seeing millions flood over our border

 

And you guys want millions more to just flood into our country so Democrats can grant them amnesty and have a stranglehold on power at the expense of the American citizens and the taxpayer

 

Nope, sorry.

 

A blind person can see the truth of it. The only way you can deny it is if you want to pretend that it's not patently obvious what's going on.

Do you think Democrat politicians actually give a damn about those people?

They are motivated by nothing more than a desire to retain power. There is absolutely nothing altruistic about their motives

 

Same thing with republicans.

 

Republicans are not inviting them into the country with the goal of amnesty and voting.

That would be Democrats placing illegals before American citizens

 

Nope, repubs would close the border and then smuggle illegals in.

 

OK no. You are not going to get it. Not unexpected, but I think I gave you a response that should allow a reasonable person to understand a different point of view, and it looks like you just couldn't go that far.

As your analogy goes, the right wants A, the left wants B & C and D. Republicans negotiate with Democrats and the bipartisan output is B, C, and D. "A" was never on the table. If you don't understand why the right rejects the immigration bill, at this point, considering the voluminous posting on it, you never will, so therefore you are left with your own propaganda talking points: The bill was everything the right wanted but TRUMP, and therefore lemming like, they followed Trump and threw away everything they claimed they wanted.

It's dumb but I guess I've done as well as I can explaining the view from the right from someone on the right, but I guess you'll stick with talking points.

 

How did you get "perfect" out of that?

 

Do the math! We need 10 years of a completely shut border to undo the damage Biden has caused in just 3 years.

 

REPUBLICANS wanted Ukraine funding there.

Biden is not the President of Mexico. Dems would LOVE for Mexico to clean up our mess. But the President of OUR country has no say on who stays or doesn't stay there. Mexico has strong respect for international law in respect to refugees. So they treat refugees more humanely than we do. During the last agreement with Mexico, refugees were robbed, kidnapped, sexually abused, exploited ... especially by drug cartels. Which was who they were seeking refuge FROM in the first place. The agreement meant it was MEXICO that violated international law by putting them back in the hands of the people they were trying to escape from. Mexico would be willing to take the refugees we expel IF we covered the cost of protecting them. Which would be much more expensive than just letting them into our country. So the only reason we would have to expel them is xenophobia.

Anyway.... off topic.

Trump, House Reps who said it publicly, and Republican Senators who voted for it.

 

Trump, for personal reasons, cannot allow bipartisan legislation that finally addresses border security. If such bipartisan progress is achieved, his lie that a president can do it unilaterally is exposed.

Chip Roy knocks Trump over border claim: ‘That didn’t happen’
​

“No, we’re not just going to pass the buck and say that, ‘Oh, any president can walk in and secure the border,’” Roy said, referring to Trump’s post. “All a president has to do is declare the border’s closed, and it’s closed. Well, with all due respect, that didn’t happen in 2017, 2018, 2019 and 2020. There were millions of people that came in the United States during those four years.”

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/poli...r-border-claim-that-didn-t-happen/ar-BB1hVdNW​