The Chinese agenda

China is expanding their military because their military is backwards. Also, they need a better military so that they can project military power over seas. They recently started to expand the blue water navy.

Keep in mind, they are not a war like people. The history of China shows that they never had a stomach for world domination. Sure they will try to protect their interest, but they are a peaceful people.

 

Uh-huh.

Tell that to Tibet, South Korea, Taiwan, India, Vietnam, and the Soviet Union.

And don't forget the students in Tiananmen Square. Most estimates are around 3,700 civilians killed after they essentially assaulted a peacefull protest.

Official counts and estimates for that event vary though, ranging from 241 by the Chinese Government, to 10,000 by the Soviet Union. I am picking the number given by a Chinese Army defector since that is probably closest to the actual number.

 

Doesn't matter, the only Military with any balls is the US Military

 

I would never say that.

I have met a lot of people from our allies when I was overseas, and would never accuse them of lacking in courage or ability.

 

Overwhelming fire power does not count as balls, sorry. The Taliban have more balls than the US.

 

i was in beijing at 89. there are hundreds killed, not thousands, just want to get your fact stright. historically china only protect its local interest. china hasn't had a war since late 70's, while US continue has wars accross the global. china know too well that War cost money, and they rather make money than waste it on a fruitless war.

 

Yeah, planting IEDs from a distance and forcing kids to carry out suicide attacks that kill three times as many civilains as coalition soldiers really takes "balls". Our guys would be more than happy to go toe to toe, man to man, with the Taliban any day of the week. The Taliban are so "courageous" they'd rather hide behind civilians and use indiscriminate bombings than come out and fight.

 

Why make a big fuss over a huge empty shell of scrap metal? India and Thailand have been in possession of an aircraft carrier each for a long while, and nobody ever raises an eyebrow over it.

Of course, for any normal person there is a plan in every action. Don't tell me you don't have a plan when you do something. Only a senile person does not know what he is doing himself.

 

Well said, General Fear. Fear No More!

 

China committed an act of war against Vietnam in June. Only aggressive powers commit acts of war. Any questions?

 

I did not mean that China is like Switzerland. They do use their military. But historically, the Chinese have never had a desire to conquer the world.

 

What is the relationship, if any, between the traditional western concept of conquering the world, and the Han concept of the Middle Kingdom?

 

The US military doesnt go "man to man" with anyone until they have laid down carpet bombing which kills more civilians than anyone else along with their own soldiers. They cant scratch their arse without air support.

 

Carpet bombing hasn't been used since the Kososvo War.

 

My point stands, overwhelming fire power does not equal balls whch is why the US has needed Australia in just about every major conflict they have been in. Australia provides the balls and the US provides the firepower.

 

And if you look, I listed several casualty figures. From the silly Chinese claim of 241, the the Soviet claim of 10,000.

Nobody accepts the Official Chinese figure. Even the Chinese Red Cross claims there were 2,600 officially. An innamed Red Cross official however stated that there were 5,000 killed.

Amnesty International claims that there were 1,000 dead.

I will stick with the figures of the PLA defector. Of course, his figures also include those who were eliminated by the government after the event, as well as people who were denied medical treatment. And those are just as much casualties as those shot and run over with tanks.

Although if you could come up with an independent death count that is "only a few hundred", I would be glad to listen to it.

To me, even a death count of 5 is to much. The military was called in to violently crush a peacefull protest. The students and others who joined them were not advocating the overthrow of the government, nor were they practicing sedition. They were only trying to gain the freedoms that were supposed to be guaranteed to them. And we saw what that got them.

If the US Government slaughtered "a few hundred" peacefull protests, everybody from the President to the Officers who gave the final orders would be facing life prison terms, or the death penalty.

Tell me I am wrong. The soldiers of the Soviet Union pretty much faced the same situation in 1991, and we all know how that turned out. The military refused to follow the orders of those that ordered the slaughter of civilians, and were praised as heroes.

Most of us in the "Free World" look on the Chinese military in contempt for the choices they made.

This is exactly my point. And it is not just this last June.

In 1986 there were multiple border skirmishes with Vietnam.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/24972227/Thayer-The-Sino-Vietnamese-Border-War-1986-87

Then there was the incident in 1988, when the PLAN tried to occupy the Spratly Islands.

Then in 1994, they tried that again with Mischied Reef, which was controlled by the Philippines. However, China invaded and annexed them, and the Philippines lacked the strength to prevent this from happening.

So yes, they may not have had "wars", but that is not stopping them from useing their strength to force or try to force their neighbors to giving them what they want.

Funny, how so often people think that nothing has happened, simply because they have never heard of it.

 

Got any proof of that?

That was a claim made, and dismissed. There has never been any proof that that ever happened. NATO records show no large drops were ordered, nor were they made. And no damage consistant with carpet bombing has ever been shown.

If you can give us a reputable reference that shows damage consistant with carpet bombing, I would love to see it. Because in over 10 years, nobody has been able to provide any yet.

 

Haha, what a joke. The few hundred Australian combat troops in Iraq/Afghanistan at any given time have provided the "balls" for the 50-150 thousand U.S. troops in the same combat zone? Your own General in Iraq even admitted that Australia wasn't a "swimmer" in Iraq and wasn't taken seriously by the U.S. because of their refusal to commit seriously to ground operations. You're delusional, plain and simple. U.S. forces have been going toe to toe with insurgents since the begining of both conflicts. If you weren't so ignorant of military operations you'd understand that insurgency's aren't won by mass firepower. They're won by boots on the ground infantry operations...aka "toe to toe." Of course you just watch all the pretty smart bombs and gunships from the comfort of your home and think that's how the war is fought.

 

I don't know what your problem is. Chill. I saw news clips of B-52s dropping dumb bombs on Serb army positions. Btw, keep a civil tongue in your mouth if you want me to be nice.

 

It's simple: eat cats.

Deprive the world of it's cat supply and then *BOOM* take over.

All kidding aside, they are acting very imperialistic and aggressive toward their neighbors.

 

What was China's "act of war against Vietnam in June"? If so, the Vietnamese leeches would have called on their own regime to apply trade sanctions against China. The world would also witness bloody anti-Chinese riots throughout Vietnam.

Instead, go to any Vietnamese border town, and you will find the Vietnamese residents busy trading with their counterparts across the Sino-Vietnamese border. As usual, you will find Vietnamese girls busy courting and marrying the richer Chinese men they can find in the Chinese border towns and villages.

Are you sure that only aggressive powers commit acts of war? Take the case of the border war between Thailand and Cambodia, who are the aggressive powers? Any question?

 

Joe, you are doing it again after your drinking bout with your Six-pack -- eating dogs, cats, rats, cockroaches, etc, etc.

 

There have been demonstrations against china throughout Vietnam. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-13661779

Vietnam intends to ask the US and Indian navies to share port facilities at Cam Ranh Bay. The Philippines has invoked its defense treaty with America against China. China is making enemies. Foolishly. Deng would be displeased.

I don't care who is dating, mating, screwing and marrying. That's of no importance to me.

 

The Chinese concept is "static" and "defensive" as opposed to the western concept of "dynamic" and "aggressive".

A very good example was provided by the seven historic voyages of Zheng He ( 郑 和 1371–1433 ).

Decades before Christopher Columbus "discovered" America, the Chinese were exploring the Indian Ocean and Western Pacific with seven voyages of the "Treasure Fleet" in the 15th century.

The Treasure Fleets were commanded by a powerful eunuch admiral named Zheng He or Cheng Ho. In his fifth vovage (1417-1419), his fleet visited the Persian Gulf and the east coast of Africa, returning envoys along the way.

It was likely that a detachment of one of Zheng He's fleets sailed to northern Australia during one of the seven voyages based upon the Chinese artifacts found as well as the oral history of the Aborigine.

After Zheng He's seven voyages, Europeans began to make headway toward China. In 1488 Bartolomeu Dias rounded Africa's Cape of Good Hope, in 1498 Vasco da Gama reached China's favourite trading city of Calicut, and in 1521 Ferdinand Magellan finally reached Asia by sailing west. China's superiority in the Indian Ocean was unrivaled until the 16th century when the Portuguese arrived and established their colonies along the rim of the Indian Ocean.

Unlike the later European colonists, the Chinese explorers and sailors never made any attempt to colonize or occupy the lands they visited during their voyages. If the Chinese behaved aggressively and brutally like the Europeans, world history would have changed drastically.

Unfortunately for the American natives, Columbus managed to find his way to the so-called New Continent. The natives couldn't do anything but blame Destiny for the holocausts inflicted by the aggressive, brutal, merciless European colonists.

Please refer to the following links:

1. Zheng He at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zheng_He

2. Cheng Ho at http://geography.about.com/od/historyofgeography/a/chengho.htm

 

I do not agree with you. The voyages of the Hui admiral Zheng He were cut short by division at the court of the Ming emperor. The winning faction perceived the threat of Mongol revanchism to be of greater importance than were the trading activities of Zheng He and his treasure fleet. As a result the Ming built even stronger armies and achieved great success against the Mongols.

But unfortunately, in order to prevent any sliding back towards Zheng He, the Ming burned his fleet's logs. All of them. This was one of the greatest errors in world history. The Ming didn't anticipate the rise of Western navigation. About ninety years after the Ming burned Zheng He's logs, the Iberians showed up in Guangdong without an invitation. And the fate of the Middle Kingdom was sealed.