The death penalty and religion

Wonderful how many fundamentalist and right wing Americans manage to tell me I'm ignorant. They've never heard of pots and kettles in Hicksville, I take it.

 

Well, its all your going to get. You will just have to agree or disagree with me.

And maybe you and others are misunderstanding something.

Quantrill

 

God says "Thou shalt not murder".

God says, " And surely your blood of you lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I requirde it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of man. Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man. "

Gen.9:5-6

Quantrill

 

You bet. Yeah I read the Bible. Do you? Can you imagine Jesus Christ rising from the dead? I can.

Quantrill

 

The kingdom of god is in front of your eyes - now in the moment.

The secular world and the spiritual world are different things - but human beings are part of both worlds. Someone cannot be for death in the secular world while he's the same time for life in the spiritual world. Someone is not able to love god and to hate the people or to love the people and to hate god the same time. In all cases a politician is responsible: in the spiritual world to god (logos, reason, transzendent reality ...) - in the secular world to the people (living conditions, future possibilities, ...)

If he said so then you are right.

http://youtu.be/UPeIGxPrD3A

 

I'm sure that this is much to easy.

Question: Do you eat kosher? Do you wear four tassels on your clothing? ...

The text here is not very clear to me if I read the german text. I have the feeling someone was confused. It wouöd make much more sense if god had said in this situation "Wer Menschenblut vergießt, dessen Blut soll [nicht] auch durch Menschen vergossen werden; denn Gott hat den Menschen zu seinem Bilde gemacht." - Perhaps someone forgot to write a "not", because he was not ready to understand what god really said to him? For sure god made a kind of sign at Kain that no one should do him anythgin bad because he had murdered his own brother. But this is now to compex for me to discuss with you or any other theologian even in my own german language. I'm a layman. And I don't see any need for this discussion because I know very well that god is the might who is always on the side of every life - not only on the side of human life - also on the side of animals. Specially it's clear that today it is not necessarry any longer to murder someone only because he's a murderer. This time is over. Ask god and maybe he will tell you exactly why death penalty makes no sense if you don't think that I am right. Maybe it's enough if you are asking what the trustworthy authorities of your own christian church are teaching you.

http://youtu.be/aah_ITLw3R8

 

Well check it out for yourself.

No, I don't. But you are confusing the Mosaic law with the verses I gave in Gen. 9. The Mosaic law was not yet in force. And this command to deliever the death penalty has not been revoked.

I guess you can believe whatever you like. But the Scriptures are clear that God instituted the death penalty.

Quantrill

 

I am Christian and I believe in the Death Penalty. It is not murder, but rule of law. It protects innocent life. And it is fitting justice for a person who killed with no remorse and would kill again if given the chance.

 

Me too. And more over, you'll find that Christians of our opinion do not judge those who disagree as being unchristian. That's an outrageous statement to make and astoundingly wrong.

 

No. That's wrong. And no one need the bible to find out that this is wrong. You are very far away from the christian religion. Even every atheist is able to understand that it is not a sign of love if someone murders someone - and everyone is also able to understand that it is not a sign of love to murder a murderer. It's quite simple a deep nonsense if someone likes to see death penalty under the imagination of duty. There's only one reason someone is able to kill someone else in case someone believes in love and/or a worthful human mankind: to defend the own life or to defend the life of others.

From my point of view there's absolutely no discussion about death penalty any longer. If the bible is a problem for you in this decision then it's maybe better for you to throw the whole bible away instead not to do the real good things what are written inside. The bible itselve is not a god. It's the word of god how human beings understood it in their time - so the bible is not without mistakes. What you take from the bible is your own decision - and no one else is responsible than only you if you are accepting a mistake, wether it is a real mistake or only a wrong interpretation. In case you don't know how to interpret the bible ask a professional. Go to a priest (iof teh fathncoci chriuch if you dpont havew an onw priest - UI hope he will do me the favor to speak with you) or read a book from a holy man about this theme or ... The logos itselve says very clear that death penalty makes no sense. Even the experience of the most encultured and civilized nations in the world says very clear that death penalty makes no sense. All big christian confessionas say very clear - since a very long time now - that death penalty makes absolutely no sense.

In my view on the world you have only one real choice if you like to prepare yourselve for your afterlife: Change your opinion. Start to think in another way. Now. Immediatelly. Your ideas about death penalty are not compatible with the christian religion. We are not only the religion of love - we are also the religion of life.

http://youtu.be/G-GfThZpf28

 

Do you also believe you are able to enlighten a candle with the might of your own thoughts? I believe if you would be able to enlighten only one life again you never would try to kill first. Jesus Christ never killed someone - but he waked some people - even from their dead. So perhaps it would be good for your to awake from the death of your soul - now immediatelly! Go into life! There's a lot to do for every Christian - it's said we are hardworking people.

Some laws are unfortunatelly not printed on toilet paper.

This would be a positive motivation - and now please: Go into a church, sit down, relax - and tell this to Jesus Christ and discuss with him in your thoughts with all your emotions and your whole existance. Try to explain god how you like to protect a innocent life by destroying a propably not innocent life. What is the number of wrong decisions in case of death penalty? 1/3 of all people who were excuted are innocent, I heard. Even if it would be much less wrong decisions: Human beings are not allknowing and human beings are not allmighty - and we should try to be free from the will to be allmighty or to be allknowing. Life is complex enough. Today is the most difficult day of our lifes - and today is the first day of our futures.

Tell me only about one person who feels really better after revenge. That's only an illusion. ¿If you lost someone - why should someone else loose someone? The Nazi-muderers of my jewish family for example lived their lifes very well respected, grew old and no one ever found only one of them - specially also because no one was really looking after them. From one person I heard five years after his death that he was responsible for the murder of thousands of people. That's why I say this murderers lived well respected. I don't have any problem with this situation. I'm only happy that I never had to forgive one of this criminals - that he came not to me while he was alive and begged for pardon. I guess I would not feel good if I imagine such a situation. I'm satisfied that god is doing the decision now. I'm not even interested to know what this decision could be. I'm sure he will make everything in the right way.

http://youtu.be/WmxXwAgkhWQ

 

You go ahead and follow the atheists view of the Bible, I will follow God and His Word He gave in the Bible.

Its no problem with me at all. Its very clear.

Quantrill

 

Death penalty is still not compatible with the christian religion. And you are not a guy who becomes executed from me. Tell me what the authorities of your own christian church are writing about death penalty if you are thinking I'm wrong.

http://youtu.be/k10Lbyw2soY

 

I gave you the authoritative writing. Gen. 9.

Quantrill

 

Nothing is clear. You like to stay on a very confused broad way to hell. The will to kill other people is nearly the same as to kill other people. That's a very big danger for your soul. Do not stay in this lazy way. Change it.

http://youtu.be/6Wm_hjF_PO8

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I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us. The creation waits in eager expectation for the children of God to be revealed. For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the freedom and glory of the children of God. We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption, the redemption of our bodies. For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what they already have? But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently. In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans. And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for God's people in accordance with the will of God. And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

What, then, shall we say in response to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all—how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things? Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. Who then can condemn? No-one. Christ Jesus who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? As it is written: 'For your sake we face death all day long; we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered.' No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. http://youtu.be/YaqQnhBtxaI

 

Sorry. There is no need for me to change my belief because my belief is based on the clear teaching of the Bible.

Quantrill

 

So you are definetelly no Christian if you refer to your own thoughts only. It's not enough to read only one or two sentences in the bible. It's not even enough to read the whole bible three times. Christians need Christians to be Christians.

http://youtu.be/F0eaQQpaDCo

 

I referred to the Scriptures.

No problem there, I am a Christian.

Quantrill

 

Your are wrong. A closed stone is not able to be in love. You are not able to kiss alone.

http://youtu.be/idIqf2OcQkM

 

I'm sorry, Quantrill, but you are one of those who make a false claim to that membership. In what way do you govern your behaviour or your beliefs by the Sermon on the Mount?

 

I'm Christian, and am against capital punishment, except in exceedingly limited cases--when there is no other way to protect society. If, for instance, a "Hannibal Lector" existed, it would be just to execute him--there is no doubt about his criminality and his very existence greatly endangers the prison guards that keep away from society. However, barring psychopathic serial killing geniuses, I think life without possibility of release is the more appropriate punishment.

 

I beleive Christ was against the death penalty:

John 8:
8:1 ¶ Jesus went unto the mount of Olives.
8:2 And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them.
8:3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,
8:4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.
8:5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?
8:6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.
8:7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
8:8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.
8:9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.
8:10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
8:11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

 

Even not being religious, this is the pretty much the way I look at the issue.
I would just assume abolish the death penalty altogether as a practice, even if it meant a Hannibal Lector was just kept in prison for life.

I saw a Dateline recently that reminded me of how absurd the death penalty gets in politics.
A killer, who was definitely guilty, was incarcerated for life without parole due to a plea bargain to avoid death (and give the location of a body).
Another state decided to prosecute him for other deaths in order to get him the death penalty.

What I find absurd is that people don't see this kind of prosecution as a major risk of the taxpayers' money that could be used for things that actually help people.
The move seems very obviously, like most death penalty moves, to be a political stunt by the prosecutor due to the popularity of death penalty politics and the importance of "tough on crime" in prosecutor politics... but people support such a political stunt even at great expense for a criminal that will already never see daylight again.
I think people take retribution far too seriously for their own good.

 

What has that to do with the question? You pervert Christianity for politics and gain, which is shocking.

 

You waste your reserve of misery for nothing. Samuel H, *.* you and any other beings appealing to teaching of JC are totally void of any comprehension of Xty. We, Xns believe that JC is alive. In spiritual communication with him through his word and getting together in churches we attempt to find guidance.

Anobsitar believes that he is god set to jugde others and the Pope ( a good kind guy in funny bright cloth) is his main Apostle. Anobsitar is a Catholic, a screwed up, misguided Xn. He posts to give us guidance. A Catholic, what a can you do.

You as well as all other atheists are making scriptures from yourself, since in your belief JC is a history, a dead man, a made up imaginable friend. Thus getting in discussions like this one, and even starting such you look to Xns like dogs trying to speak human language. It is not your language.