The death penalty and religion

You believe Jesus is alive but totally ignore all he ever said? People who worship Mammon do not have any spiritual communication with anybody, as very well you know. You are deceiving yourself.

 

20But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.



From blood in the original Greek means blood shed. The first rules set down to the Churches of Christ included a rule not to kill. The death penalty is clearly not compatible to our Christian beliefs.

But the biggest reason to be against the death penalty as a Christian is this: Forgiveness. That one word can truly be the basis for our entire faith. Forgiveness of sins, forgiving your enemies, and forgiving oneself. When you execute some one you are denying them the chance at forgiveness. What's worse just as the parable of the master and the servant that owed a 1000 talents you are excepting Gods forgiveness while denying it to your brethren. Which is a sin in and of its self. Because as you forgive so are you forgiven.


(sorry left off the passage)

 

No. Actually you do. By trying to cram Jesus into your political pigeon holes, you desecrate his teachings. Jesus took no political positions whatsoever and made no prescription as to how to run the justice system. His kingdom is not of this world and every attempt made by his enemies to nail him to a political opinion failed completely (should taxes be paid to caeser?). You are no different than the many political factions of the days of Christ, trying to enlist him in your earthly causes. Publicans, insurrectionists, hellenists, pharisees, sadducees, and all those who thought Jesus would advance Israel militarily over its enemies...you are no different than any of these in your rank blindness!

If you could only see what I see, how you pervert and sully the teachings of Christ to conform to your depraved, unregenerate mind, you would weep bitter tears.

 

He took a very clear political position against the rich and powerful and against Imperialism. Read the New Testament. You deny every word that ever came out of his mouth in favour of made-up nonsense, as you know, bowing down to worship the work of your own hands.

 

The death penalty is given to mankind in general. The Church doesn't operate under the same rules as the nations of the world.

You can't run a country like a Church. Gen. 9 is clear. God gave the death penalty.

Quantrill

 

You wouldn't know a Christian from the man in the moon. So Im not interested in proving my Christianity to you.

Tell me you believe the Bible to be the Word of God. That Jesus Christ is the Son of the Living God. Then I will prove my Christianity to you by the Scriptures, the Word of God.

Quantrill

 

Precisely! And it seems that nearly every Christian I meet who opposes the death penalty makes the same mistake of confusing the kingdom of heaven with the kingdoms of men. Here Jesus lays it out in terms that can't be mistaken:

John 18:36
Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now My kingdom is not from here.”


He's not only saying he's a heavenly king, not an earthly king, but that if he were an earthly king, his soldiers would fight a justifiable war to prevent his capture by his enemies. Jesus clearly understood the perogatives of the state were different than the perogatives of heaven. States must do what they must to protect people and preserve the peace. How can it be spelled out any more clearly?:

Romans 13:
1 Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God.
2 Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves.
3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same.
4 For he is God’s minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God’s minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil.

Do the opponants of capital punishment really think Paul's referring to a symbolic or a fake sword?

 

Yes, it's infuriating that anyone who disagrees with Iolo isn't a real Christian. What's oddly ironic is that any true Christian who understands Christian piety wouldn't dare to impale upon the Christianity of another. That is prideful to the extreme. These are the "idle words that men speak" that Jesus warned would result in judgement.

 

http://youtu.be/D4insqFNx_M

 

I should weep a bitter tear about the desastrous situation of the christian religion worldwide. Let me ask you something: What or who is able to convince you that death penalty is wrongdoing?

http://youtu.be/bLn_ZZEoWYI

 

I am one who changed my mind from very pro death penalty to very anti-death penalty. No one could change my mind--God graced me in seeing who is in charge of justice.

 

Sure : but I guess you looked also for an atmosphere where the spirit of god was able to communicate with you and your heart and mind were free for the wonders of life.

http://youtu.be/nqp89bkFe8k

 

Read the sermon on the Mount and look at the behaviour of so many American 'Christians'. Imagining a relationship with a projection of your own mind is akin to worshipping the work of your own hands, surely? The word you want is 'impugn', which I don't do to anyone's belief who shows any sign of reading the New Testament before holding forth.

 

No. It would not be just to execute him. It would be sweet revenge. Or it could be the equivalent of putting down a rabid dog. An eye for an eye is not justice, no matter what Moses stole from Hamurrabi.

Perhpas Hannibal Lecter should be kept in a mental institution for study. Maybe we could actually learn something psychophysiologically from people like him. Did this cross your mind?

I swear. So many Christains are ready to meet out death and desctruction at the drop of a hat.

 

I'm no Christian, but in my view if your going to be a Christian then you should obey Jesus. Simple as that. One self-described fundamentalist Christian actually said to me and I quote, "I don't believe in all that 'turn the other cheek' stuff."

Only on Bizzarro world can this person be a Christian. What could more fundamental to Christianity than the words of Jesus quoted from the Bible?

Time and time again we see how so-called Christians pick and chose what they want to believe. Interestingly, this is how it should be. Everyone should be allowed to judge for himself what is an acceptable belief. This is exactly what Christians, and everyone else, in fact, does. I just wish they would admit it.

 

Why?

http://youtu.be/uAsV5-Hv-7U

 

If Christianity is nothing but believing that Jesus is the Messiah regardless of what else you do, then Satan is a Christian. For surely Satan more than believes in God and believes that Jesus is the son of God and the Messiah, he knows it for a fact.

 

That's why Christians should obey Jesus Christ or that's why Christians should obey your ideas about Jesus Christ or that's why Christians should obey your ideas or that's why Christians should obey you?

http://youtu.be/lTN-NPtNOHU

 

It seems sensible that Christians should believe - and act on - what Jesus said, if they believe he said it, surely?

 

As a Christian, I'm definitely against the death penalty. I can't read the bible and come away with a different view.

 

Why did Jesus act as he did in John 8:3-11? Should the people have stoned her? "He who is without sin throw a stone at her first," was very convincing to her accusers. But the accusers were within the law to kill her. Why did Jesus say anything? Why not just let them kill her and teach something else?

Forgiveness
Compassion
Love

These are the hallmarks of our great religion.

 

If the Catholic Church were to teach that capital punishment is wrong in all situations, I would believe it, so great is my faith in the Church as the chosen vessel of revelation. I don't think it's going to happen though. Tradition is clarified, but it's never changed, and it certainly never conflicts with itself.

To understand the Catholic Church's stance on actions of the state, it would help to take a look at St. Augustine's Just War Doctrine. Though it prescribes a list of considerations before a state goes to war, it defers final judgement on said criteria to the authorities in government. It has all the force of a simple suggestion and nothing more. States have the right to go to war, states have the right to execute criminals, as they deem it's needed. The Church does not impose itself in these matters. Our kingdom is not of this world.

 

The execution of criminals is another. There are several problems with those who abuse this scripture to their leftist political ends:

1. Jesus was not making a prescription upon the state or its right to execute criminals for the protection of society and the maintaining of law and order.

2. Jesus was not dealing with an act of due process. The woman was never tried or convicted. This was a mob lynching, an exercise in lawlessness.

3. Jesus was not opposing the death penalty that HE HIMSELF prescribed repeatedly in the OT. He was opposing the hypocrisy of those set to stone this woman for the very crime they themselves were guilty of.

Those who abuse the holy Scriptures demonstrate their hatred for the word of God and their willingness to pervert it for their own personal agenda. It's shameful and outrageous.

 

Why is it that you turn every argument into a referendum on your antipathy to the statues that grace our parishes and cathedrals? You've done this 3 times now, trying to twist the conversation to suit an ulterior agenda. Knock it off or I won't be discussing anything with you anymore.

 

Ooh! That's the better question.