Regardless dixon, many people are actively seeking to change things; in due time, that will happen. Justice is in-motion, and for now that is a satisfying thing.
Nothing to do with justice. It is social engineering designed to win respect for homosexuals, from the rest of us and lacking dignity for the homosexuals. A perversion of justice to serve other goals.
The next repeals you can expect to see are homosexual marriage laws in the very few places where those mistakes were made by the over-zealous. I'm ex-military and still know career military people who are saying that open homosexuality in the military branches is being rejected by the soldiers and sailors. Any attempt to force military personnel to change their beliefs on the subject represents civil rights violations. Repealing "Don't Ask Don't Tell" means we go back to what existed before Don't Ask Don't Tell which is: Always ask and if candidates for military service want to choose their sexual addiction over a career in the military, then they are free to do so, application rejected. Have a nice life as a civilian.
The "plenty" you refer to, should we call them pawns, sheep, or just bleeding hearts who spend their lives desperately looking for victim groups to help?
Most gay people dont give a (*)(*)(*)(*) about what you think about them, including those I know that are in the military. They are not trying to get you to change your beliefs or your views so your argument is invalid. The only "civil rights violations" is firing someone for something they do that has no effect on you or anyone else. We went through this with women and with blacks. Get use to it, you can no longer discriminate or do what you like because you disagree with someone. Grow up
I'll agree with you on one word, "growing", and the reason for that growth is simple: the main stream media is still successfully suppressing the news that there's no "Gay Gene", i.e. people don't yet realize that nobody has ever been born gay. Ordinary, moderate, realists or whatever you call the "average joe" is still being fooled by the Born Gay Hoax. America and the world are destined to recover from this funk. We'll look back and think "remember when people thought being gay was genetic?" That's when all the fetishes and sexual addictions will finally be equalized and no single one of them will get special treatment over the others.
And I care much less about what they think of me. Military personnel are currently undergoing indoctrination to force them to accept gays, and they are rejecting the indoctrination, in some instances refusing to attend. These brave service members are the new Rosa Parks. I don't see the connection. What are you blathering about? What does any of this have to do with women and blacks, oh wait, you mean women and blacks who are gay?
That's sad: sad that military personnel aren't naturally accepting of gays. Is that the sort of bigoted, narrow-mindedness you want in your armed forces? Come to think of it, it's probably a requirement on the application form. Sad.
The American military is made up of people from across the widest spectra of our society. There are all types of people (some who don't accept gays) in the military. But the Congress and the military has changed its laws. We are at the beginning of a new and long-overdue era. Fear not. MOST Americans approve of homosexuals serving openly in the military AND homosexuals being married. The die-hard, anti-gay bigots tend to make the most NOISE, but many (especially those who are young) know better than to pay too much attention to the naysayers and haters; they aren't listening to that BS. And those people make up very MUCH of our military. I personally have 30+ years of military service, and I know that things have been changing all along. And by being around SCORES of homophobic males over all that time, I've learned well... where the arguments many people make, veer-off into unreasonableness. I've been fortunate enough to conceal my 'homosexual' orientation for all that time. I've reached the Senior Ranks, and I have respected and been respected by literally thousands of people. I serve with and love those people, whether they despise homosexuality or not. I've softened "hard" hearts, whenever and wherever I had reasonable opportunity to do so. I kept my orientation a secret, and learned a lot about self-control to manage the same. I have to say, I was very happy, when my leaders did away with DADT; it was a failing and excruciatingly-unfair policy. I'm very happy indeed. Not anymore (and it never was). I remember when I signed-up to enter the military, I was asked the question whether I was homosexual or not. Back then... I really didn't know the full answer to that. Actually, I was certain that becoming a soldier and doing the tough things a soldier did... would probably 'fix' that 'gay' part of me. Well, I was wrong as hell. (LOL!!) What happened, was that I learned some awesome technical skills (along with skills/methods of killing, that I never knew before); I became tough enough indeed... but SHAZAMM!!! I remained "homosexual". Over the last 30+ years, I've met people who were heterosexual-whores, bi-sexual people with great open hearts and homosexual people who were literal masters at playing the roles of heterosexual men/women. It has taught me a lot about accepting people as they are, and respecting those who are different than myself. The diversity of individuals you MUST learn to work with affects, changes and builds you in ways which are absolutely priceless. Trust me. Things are getting better, all the time.
Agreed. In fact, I am not a liberal, and am most affirmatively a heterosexual and I strongly support equal rights for homosexuals, including but not limited to, MARRIAGE.
I served in Vietnam and met more than a couple of gays that were excellent people and soldiers. In fact, one in my platoon was so good I got him moved to my tank and removed a stupid, lousy heterosexual that ended up getting himself and several others killed. The only ones that object to a good soldier in the military are ignorant bigots, and I would much rather fight beside a good soldier that was gay than some ignorant bigot.
I agree with everything you said but the last statement. After following this thread for several weeks, it is quite apparent to me that it is slam full of ignorant bigots and I am tired of them. Gone to find a more rational thread.
Well, I mainly was talking about the 'units' I've been in personally. They have gotten better over the years (overall). As far as this forum... this is (in large part) a place where MANY hateful bigots come to 'vent'. My purpose isn't to convince the haters, but mainly to leave a trail of alternate-opinions and bits of truth... so that Google searches (or other such things), bring up more of what can be helpful to those trying to make the world a truly better place. Honestly, I'm glad that I don't have the right or ability to shut some people's computers down completely, but I admit that I sometimes think I would enjoy doing that.
The Gay Agenda - it's about adding a new privileged class of people. Imagine a following situation at work, for example. You will see that it's much harder to fire a gay, even though there are other reasons to fire him. Let's say there is gay in your team and he is a bad team player or has a bad odor, well, something you don't like in him on a none-gay related issue, or you just need to fire some people, because your company doesn't need them anymore. So, you go to the manager and complain about him. You say, I don't like this person for bad odor, for example. So, you are risking creating yourself a situation, because this gay might go and say "He/she is picking up on me because I am gay!". Or, company will not fire this gay, just because this gay might go to court and complain, like he thinks, that he was fired just because he is a gay. Even if this gay is not right, you still might need to spend thousands of $ to protect yourself, like hire a lawyer. So, management won't risk to fire a gay and fire a heterosexual person, most likely white straight male. BTW, being a women ("weak sex"), being none-white(racial minority) gives also an advantage, like being gay. So, by "fighting for equal rights" they are actually creating inequality, by giving a "protected" privilege to these groups of people. Right now, in Western countries white straight male is the most discriminated and colored lesbian woman is the most protected (3 points of protection). For white male, being gay gives 1 point of protection. This is why you see that gays are mostly whites in USA and other Western countries.
Christians vs. the World This is what it's all about. I grew up in a conservative Christian atmosphere. One of the favorite pieces of literature there: Jack Chick Tracts. Chick tracts are loaded with conspiracy theories that basically boil down to everyone who is not a Christian is part of some grand conspiracy to destroy Christianity. It makes for a great "Soilent Green" type plot. Some nonbelievers are not in the know. They usually are the ones that the Christian "good guys" are there to help. This is actually the running theme in the Chick series "The Crusaders". It's either that or the good guys meet someone who is in the know. Someone who used to be a part of the conspiracy but got out and reveals to the good guys all the secrets of Satan's conspiracies (like the "Alberto" series which are the last 5 books of the Crusaders). On a side note, wow, this just in - I have just made a discovery about myself: I'm a comic book nerd. But for the most embarrassing comics in the comic book world: Chick Tracts. On the other hand I've thought about going back to reread them for comedic value. Here's a hilarious video adaptation of the comic (just a note that the video maker did not change the artwork or script, he's reading it word for word and it's absolutely hilarious): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6pyA1pH_0Y Anyway, Chick Tracts aren't the only contributor to why Christians believe it's them vs. the world. But it's one of the contributors. The main contributor is their interpretation of the Bible. They know that the Bible was speaking figuratively when it tells them to put on the whole "Armor of God". So good... they got symbolism down. They get a little screwed up when they get to the part about the "wiles of the devil". Then their mind turns into some Christian version of the Manchurian Candidate or better yet "Conspiracy Theory" starring Mel Gibson. Christians believe that the nonbelievers are part of Satan's plan to destroy them. Not all of them. Many are not "in the know" about what's going on. Those are the people they believe they must "win to the Lord" and show them the truth about what's going on out there. But to Christians, the community they label "nonbelievers" seem to have ranks, and the higher you get, the more you know about what's really going on. It's the gay agenda, but it's not just the gay agenda. It's Muslims trying to insert Sharia law into the US constitution. It's the communists taking over. That one's not even a fringe opinion. A huge portion of conservatives think communism is trying to take over 'Merica. It's the global warming hoax. Because God's in control of this world, and nothing humans do will hurt it. It's Satanism. And really, they're all just Satanists aren't they? Yes, this is where you hear conservative Christians actually combine things on tv and in articles. Like when Christians "slip up" and oops say Atheism is Satanism (it's not). Or theorize about Islamic-Communism. Or nod their approval of the claims made in the "Pink Swastika" (a book that says gays were responsible for Nazi Germany). Somewhere online there's probably some "Beautiful Mind" type graph that links all this crap together. The reality that conservative Christians don't get is that within this community they call the nonbelievers, there is no "group think". There is no Borg (nod to my fellow Trekkies). Especially among people who are not an active part of any religion. In fact do you know what the biggest group out there is? CHRISTIANS! They are still the biggest religious group in the world. Followed closely by Islam which is why you see Christians talking most about Islam (and many Muslims also have the same conspiracies about the world being against them as well). But the thing is, that in the mind of the conservative Christian, yes, they're a big group. BUT... they're the good guys. And if there's a big group of good guys with a good "agenda", then there must be a big group of bad guys with a bad "agenda". But since there's only one way into Heaven and all other ways lead to Hell, that means that aaaaaaaaaaalll the groups that are not Christian.... they're the same. They're part of the same Satanic initiative to destroy Christians. And it's the driving force behind why conservative Christians fight so hard, especially in America. In the US Christians feel like they're being backed into a corner and acting like a wild dog. This was their territory. The forefathers meant for this to be a Christian nation. Not gay, not atheist, not muslim, CHRISTIAN! Meanwhile... Let's take a breather... There are the Christians here who aren't a part of all that. They don't villainize the nonbeliever. They believe they are actually here for them. They preach a message, and let you decide whether or not they're for real. They'll do charitable deeds without seeking any recognition. They know that whatever Christians are dealing with in this country is not oppression. It's not persecution. There is no grand war on Christianity. Christians aren't being thrown into a coliseum and fed to the lions. But they also know that even if that were to happen... they know that even in the worst of conditions, their Bible tells them to keep going on, keep doing the same thing they're doing. Now look, I'm in no way trying to make one version of Christianity more right than the other. But I think we can live a lot easier if more Christians resembled that last version. The problem is that, if the Bible is right, that last version of the Christian, the true Christian, is rare. That means most people who call themselves Christians... are going straight to Hell... if the Bible is correct.
Oh this is going to be good. You're probably expecting someone to respond and say, "No. You're wrong. That doesn't happen." But I'll surprise you and say, Yeah, it does happen. But here's the problem with your scenario. Aside from it being the same ol' sermon about the fears of women, gays, and nonwhites in the workplace, it makes the assumption that women, gays, and nonwhites in the workplace are the only reason why your scenario happens. There are plenty of cases of straight, white males exploiting the system like this as well. Why? It's called human nature. Humans don't like to be fired. When you had a job, you had finances, you had a way to survive. You get fired, then what you've been depending on is shattered. Most humans find that hard to let go, and if there's some way, something you can do either reverse that or get something, SOMETHING out of it, you as a human will go for it. But people who do this are taking a risk as well. Maybe I can actually use the race card AGAINST them. Even as a white guy. If I get fired and a black guy takes over my job, I'll claim that THAT was the reason. Even if the black guy is actually better at the job than me. The risk I'm taking however is betting on whether or not the company I'm accusing will settle. I'm hoping they don't want the drama. A lawsuit may be too much cost than it's worth even if they're right and I'm wrong. But if they call my bluff, I'm screwed if I can't prove that that's why the company fired me. What does all this drama mean to the argument on equality? NOTHING! Just because you have instances that resemble the scenario you gave, doesn't make it right or wrong to offer gays, women, or nonwhites equality. Your scenario is "straw man" in the worst way. Can you actually prove this? Yeah... or it's that USA and other Western countries are already mostly white. Soooo... your logic = fail
