The Manhattan DA’s Charges and Trump’s Defenses: A Detailed Preview

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Andrew Jackson, Mar 22, 2023.

  1. The Mello Guy

    The Mello Guy Well-Known Member

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    Sure, but that doesn’t explain the fraudulent business records. Does Melania often audit the Trump org? Lll
     
  2. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    The business record misdemeanor charge has long since passed the statute of limitations.
     
  3. The Mello Guy

    The Mello Guy Well-Known Member

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    But you’re ignoring the reason which makes it a felony
     
  4. dixon76710

    dixon76710 Well-Known Member

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    Absurd theory. Had Trump paid Stormy with a personally signed check from the 2016 Trump for President campaign bank account, he would of been accused of improperly diverting campaign funds to perisomal use in violation of the law, like John Edwards was. Here they are arguing personal funds paid to Stormy were actually an unreported donation to his own campaign.
     
  5. dixon76710

    dixon76710 Well-Known Member

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    Who was defrauded?
     
  6. The Mello Guy

    The Mello Guy Well-Known Member

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    The voters
     
  7. LiveUninhibited

    LiveUninhibited Well-Known Member

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    That's not what I'm referring to, but I think Bragg may have dedicated a sentence to that idea in his conference.
     
  8. balancing act

    balancing act Well-Known Member

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    I could be wrong here, but even elections for presidents fall to the states, the whole *electoral college* thing.
    Each candidate must file in each state to be on the ballot and there are tons of state determined rules and laws, so to say states have nothing to do with *federal* elections would, to me, be inaccurate.
     
  9. dixon76710

    dixon76710 Well-Known Member

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    It is the basis of their charge. That personal money, both Cohen and Trumps reimbursement to Cohen, were actually campaign contributions. If Trump and Cohen spend $130,000 of personal funds to pay a printer to print Trump for President 2016 posters, they would be guilty of failing to report a $130,000 campaign contribution. Using personal funds to pay a porn star to shut up about her story of an affair with Trump 16 years ago is not a campaign contribution. John Edwards didnt use his personal money and instead used money from one of his wealthy campaign donors for the purpose to keep a woman quiet about her affair with him. Court viewed it as a personal expenditure not a campaign contribution.
     
  10. LiveUninhibited

    LiveUninhibited Well-Known Member

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    In his press conference, Bragg said the following: "The participant’s scheme was illegal. The scheme violated New York election law, which makes it a crime to conspire to promote a candidacy by unlawful means. The $130,000 wire payment exceeded the federal campaign contribution cap and the false statements in EMI’s books violated New York law."

    The bolded is what I'm referring to. But your part is mentioned too. I guess he has backup plans, but I think the bolded is the stronger one.
     
  11. dixon76710

    dixon76710 Well-Known Member

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    ???? How do payments made February through June 2017 defraud voters? Certainly less "fraud..." than suppressing Hunters laptop prior to the 2020 election. Or the fraud on the voters by Hillary, fraudulently recording payments to create the Steele Dossier and the Alph Bank story as "legal fees".
     
  12. The Mello Guy

    The Mello Guy Well-Known Member

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    They agreed to the stormy payment a week before the election
     
  13. dixon76710

    dixon76710 Well-Known Member

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    And the bolded part is what I am referring to. Your point? The basis of his argument is still, that personal funds were not personal expenditures and were instead illegal campaign contributions. THE ONLY connection to the campaign is that the value of shaking down Trump for an alleged affair 16 years prior greatly increased for Stormy because he was running for President. Had he not run for President but Stormy still tried to shake him down for money, he would likely have paid as well. Its not a campaign contribution. Its a personal expenditure.
     
  14. LiveUninhibited

    LiveUninhibited Well-Known Member

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    Nope, the bolded is not at all related to the campaign finance claim, though campaign finance is mentioned right after it as a separate crime. The bolded refers to: "
    3. Conspiracy to promote or prevent an election

    A more likely candidate for the crime that may convert the books and records charge to a felony is N.Y. Elec. Law § 17-152: Conspiracy to promote or prevent election. Under that statute, “Any two or more persons who conspire to promote or prevent the election of any person to a public office by unlawful means and which conspiracy is acted upon by one or more of the parties thereto, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor.” Trump appears to have conspired with Cohen (and others) to promote his own election by making the hush money payments. The key questions are whether “unlawful means” were used and whether this statute is preempted by federal law.
    "

    The Manhattan DA’s Charges and Trump’s Defenses: A Detailed Preview (justsecurity.org)
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2023
  15. dixon76710

    dixon76710 Well-Known Member

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    Nothing illegal about the payment to Stormy. And voters wouldnt be aware of some entry into Cohens records before the election and any accounting to the FEC likely isnt due for several months after the election.
     
  16. dixon76710

    dixon76710 Well-Known Member

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    Which at its foundation is built upon the assertion that the personal funds used were not a personal expenditure and was instead a campaign contribution that they failed to report.
     
  17. LiveUninhibited

    LiveUninhibited Well-Known Member

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    No it's not. According to other statements in the press release, Bragg mentions that the records indicate legal services in 2017, but the actual services were done in 2016. The reason for this lie is to cover up the fact that the NDA was used to help him win the election. That is related to the alleged false business records, not just campaign finance. Using false business records (a crime) as part of a conspiracy to promote his candidacy elevates the false business records to felony first degree. The business records could be false for multiple reasons I suppose, but campaign finance does not appear to be the only basis.
     
  18. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

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    Analyzing The Trump Indictment & Arrest
     
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  19. Wild Bill Kelsoe

    Wild Bill Kelsoe Well-Known Member

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    I said elections by mistake. I meant campaign laws. State campaign laws don't apply to campaigns for Federal elections.
     
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  20. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Bragg didn't say did he. What is this "other crime".
     
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  21. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    If it were and he did it and no you don't put down "pay off to porn star", it was a legal expense. Who was harmed by the entry? What did it matter? Since when does such a violation which happened seven years previous, the statute of limitations ran out five years ago, become the major case for a prosecutor in such a busy district as lower Manhattan?
     
  22. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    AND the NDA helped keep it from his wife, AND the FEC said it was not a campaign finance violation which it would have had to have been SOLELY for the campaign and NOTHING else, AND Bragg has no jurisdiction in federal campaigns.
     
  23. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Bragg has NO jurisdiction concerning the campaign and election. He might as well be saying Trump violated some law in France. For Bragg to use this alleged federal crime, for which the proper investigative bodies found no crime, he would have to prosecute him for it. Prove he did. And Bragg has NO authority to prosecute him on a federal law, NONE. HIs only other course is to simply play jury and judge and just simply declare Trump guilty of those crimes without a trial, where does he get that authority?
     
  24. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Trump was never charged let alone convicted of a violation for exceeding federal campaign contributions. Where does Bragg get the authority to by himself declare him guilty of a FEDERAL crime? New York law DOES NOT apply to a federal elections how many times does that have to be repeated?
     
  25. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    If the state chooses to have an election the mechanics of the voting falls to the state. The rules and laws including finance fall under the 1971 Federal Elections Act with states the federal law supersedes and preempts any state campaign and election law. Local prosecutors have no jurisdiction in federal elections and cannot charge people with crimes alleged to be associated with them.
     

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