The more Godless America becomes, the more 'uncivil' it also becomes

Did anyone inform the OP that crime rates have been in a steady decline since the 90s?

 

pretty said that some feel they need a government to do this rather then they themselves spend the time in the morning with their children at the breakfast table doing it themselves

maybe the problem is parents that do not want to spend any family time with their children...


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I wanted to add that since Jews don't believe in hell or Satan, wouldn't that make the claims of a nation being based on Judeo-Christian values and that its becoming godless in conflict as Jews don't believe the separation is possible? Isn't that kind of criticism a Christian-Muslim thing? Any real Jews in the house?

 

Incivility is manifested more recently as Road rage (wiki)

The following are common manifestations of road rage:

Generally aggressive driving, including sudden acceleration, braking, and close tailgating.
Cutting others off in a lane, or deliberately preventing someone from merging.
Chasing other motorists
Flashing lights and/or sounding the horn excessively.
Yelling or exhibiting disruptive behavior at roadside establishments.
Driving at high speeds in the median of a highway to terrify drivers in both lanes.
Rude gestures (such as "the finger").
Shouting verbal abuses or threats.
Intentionally causing a collision between vehicles.
Hitting other vehicles.
Assaulting other motorists, their passengers, cyclists or pedestrians
Exiting the car to attempt to start confrontations, including striking other vehicles with an object.
Threatening to use or using a firearm or other deadly weapon.
Throwing projectiles from a moving vehicle with the intent of damaging other vehicles.

In the U.S., more than 300 cases of road rage annually have ended with serious injuries or even fatalities – 1200 incidents per year, according to the AAA Foundation study, and rising yearly throughout the six years of the study that examined police records nationally.

No, not a 'fan' of Osteen, but visited his fathers church in Houston 25 yrs ago...was a good mix of blacks & whites, wealthy & lower class folks.

In my original search for the 'denomination' that had it 'right' after my reading a Living Bible thru in 5 days and researching them in the Library, I have probably visited or attended over 100 diff churches...pretty much every denomination and many inter/-non-/faith type churches over the years. Found out they all had 'good' & 'not so good' things about them when I judged them according to the NT words of Christ...but I have since gotten my eyes off of 'ppl' and focused on searching the Spirit behind the scriptures.

TD Jakes church started out great, but affluence came in and so did the 'bling', but havnt been there in over 15 yrs. Just mentioned to hi-lite the mix of Blacks & Whites all worshiping together in one accord when I was there last.

'Civility' in China is forced ala a mil/police style state.

Workplace incivility: does matter in Asia?

Drawing on an extensive database of more than 116,000 participants from 412 organizations in six countries and territories in the region (China, Hong Kong, India, Japan, Korea and Singapore), we analyze and try to understand uncivil behavior in the Asian workplace by examining four basic questions: how prevalent it is; how it impacts employee engagement; where it originates; and who is most vulnerable.

We find that incivility exists widely in the six areas we examined but to different extents. It also has a major impact on employee engagement, especially when the frequency reaches a certain threshold (i.e., once a month). Co-workers are more frequently perceived to be a source of incivility than managers and senior leaders. And finally, employees who are male, in management, and have worked beyond six months, tend to experience higher levels of incivility than other employees.

CONCLUSION AND IMPLICATIONS

Drawn from an extensive database, our analyses reveal that workplace incivility is a fairly prevalent phenomenon in Asia. Approximately one-third of our respondents experienced moderate to high levels of incivility in their workplaces at least once a month,
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Workplace+incivility%3A+does+matter+in+Asia%3F-a0200784495

The general conclusion in my researching on 'civility' and 'decivilization' strongly indicates a 'breakdown in culture' no matter what the country.

The US culture was based on the Judeo-Christian ethic, and the crumbling on the base moral & belief system is manifested in 'incivility' as in how we treat each other, as in "Do unto others and you would have them do unto you." A basic msg of Jesus Christ....

 

Interesting that no one was complaining during those times...having come out of WWII and the Korean War, ppl were as I said b4 pretty much on the 'same page' as far as believing in a God as the One who 'blessed this country." And no one felt 'forced' to stand for a solemn moment---does standing quiet for a moment of respect bother you ?! Respect being 'civil' in one's behavior.

But the state of the this nation & the world and where it is headed doesnt surprise me as I have read the 'back of the Book." But it still makes it hard to watch as the events unfold...again, knowing the lofty heights of where we have come from and our downward spiral into .......

 

Proclamation Appointing a National Fast Day
Washington, D.C.
March 30, 1863

By the President of the United States of America. A Proclamation.

Whereas, the Senate of the United States, devoutly recognizing the Supreme Authority and just Government of Almighty God, in all the affairs of men and of nations, has, by a resolution, requested the President to designate and set apart a day for National prayer and humiliation. And whereas it is the duty of nations as well as of men, to own their dependence upon the overruling power of God, to confess their sins and transgressions, in humble sorrow, yet with assured hope that genuine repentance will lead to mercy and pardon; and to recognize the sublime truth, announced in the Holy Scriptures and proven by all history, that those nations only are blessed whose God is the Lord. And, insomuch as we know that, by His divine law, nations like individuals are subjected to punishments and chastisements in this world, may we not justly fear that the awful calamity of civil war, which now desolates the land, may be but a punishment, inflicted upon us, for our presumptuous sins, to the needful end of our national reformation as a whole People?

We have been the recipients of the choicest bounties of Heaven. We have been preserved, these many years, in peace and prosperity. We have grown in numbers, wealth and power, as no other nation has ever grown. But we have forgotten God. We have forgotten the gracious hand which preserved us in peace, and multiplied and enriched and strengthened us; and we have vainly imagined, in the deceitfulness of our hearts, that all these blessings were produced by some superior wisdom and virtue of our own. Intoxicated with unbroken success, we have become too self-sufficient to feel the necessity of redeeming and preserving grace, too proud to pray to the God that made us! It behooves us then, to humble ourselves before the offended Power, to confess our national sins, and to pray for clemency and forgiveness.

Now, therefore, in compliance with the request, and fully concurring in the views of the Senate, I do, by this my proclamation, designate and set apart Thursday, the 30th. day of April, 1863, as a day of national humiliation, fasting and prayer. And I do hereby request all the People to abstain, on that day, from their ordinary secular pursuits, and to unite, at their several places of public worship and their respective homes, in keeping the day holy to the Lord, and devoted to the humble discharge of the religious duties proper to that solemn occasion. All this being done, in sincerity and truth, let us then rest humbly in the hope authorized by the Divine teachings, that the united cry of the Nation will be heard on high, and answered with blessings, no less than the pardon of our national sins, and the restoration of our now divided and suffering Country, to its former happy condition of unity and peace.

In witness whereof, I have hereunto set my hand and caused the seal of the United States to be affixed. Done at the City of Washington, this thirtieth day of March, in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and sixty-three, and of the Independence of the United States the eighty seventh.

By the President: Abraham Lincoln

 

Lincoln was in favor of separation of Church and state.

Education can be found here: http://freethought.mbdojo.com/foundingfathers.html

 

You know Lincoln didn't write that, right? It was his future daughter-in-law's father who wrote and introduced it. Lincoln just signed it because it successfully passed the votes in Congress. source

 

This author and his sources 'knew' Lincoln!!

About 6 mos ago I read "The Life of Abraham Lincoln," by Henry Ketcham (1901) who interviewed ppl who knew Lincoln as he had only been dead about 35 yrs at his writing.

I already posted this on this thread:

Because he didnt go to church, many didnt consider him a Christian when in IL politics and didnt vote for him---but one who follows the words of Christ is the true believer!

Lincoln did read the Bible daily and it was one of the only 3 books he had in his parents house when growing up---

but no doubt he looked to walk the talk of Jesus all thru his life! Men can put labels on you, but what does God say about you?!

 

Look, it looks to me like Loncoln was for separation of Church and state but we do not have to even discuss Lincoln.

The founding fathers had separation of Church and State as one of the primary purposes of the constitution. There is plenty of info on this in the link given previously.

We know very well the motives for and the thoughts of the founders on separation of Church and State. It is no big secret that many of them viewed anything resembling theocracy as an abomination, and for good reasons which they gave.

 

Seems like they 'ALL" approved of 'open prayer' in Govt, founding Fathers and the Proclamation for a Day of Prayer & Fasting during Lincoln's time..btw what did liberal hero FDR say about God when President?

"As Americans, we go forward, in the service of our country, by the will of God."

Franklin D. Roosevelt.

..sorry that the truth of our nation's history offends you...but that's YOUR problem, huh?

[and, YOUR rebellion wont be thwarted by mere facts......]

 

1) Rosevelt was not a founding father.

2)Open prayer is different than making laws on the basis of religion. I have no problem with politicians expressing their faith as long as they separate this from lawmaking and not try to force their religious beliefs on others through force of law.

3) I am a Constitution loving fiscal conservative and Christian. As is the case with most intelligent Christians I believe in separation of Church and State. It is only the extremist wingnuts in the religious right that wish to implement a form of Sharia law.

4) The truth of our nations history is that the founding fathers wanted separation of Church and State. This is in both the spirit and the letter of the Constitution and Bill of Rights.

 

Apparently the 'intelligent Christians & Deists" of our past history didnt see open prayer and mentioning the 3-letter version of a 4-letter word (aka, God) as conflicting....but the PC's (i.e. those lacking Common Sense, also known as "God-given Sense) have knotted their own panties in knots.....but tell me what the scriptures say about "the nation that forgets their God?" Ppl arent 'forgetting' in this country, they are "throwing Him out!"

You can weasel word the situation any way you want, but you are just fooling yourself....

So when are we going to take the '10 Commandments' off of the Supreme Court walls and take "In God We Trust " off of our money?

Up until about 25 yrs ago, the 'vast' majority of Americans if asked 'has God blessed this country' would say Yes....I'm sorry your so-called 'self-enlightenment' and assigning yourself the name 'Giftedone' has clouded your ego and your thinking...

But you have shown a propensity to argue ad nausea, and I have made my point in supporting my OP.....ta

 

[) I havnt seen this nation so torn, divided with the exception of Vietnam among the youth (mainly because of the Draft)..

I don't know what world you were in during the Vietnam war but most of the opposition had nothing to do with the draft . Had a whole lot more to do with indiscriminate killing of women and children and civilians and napalm and carpet bombings to prosecute a war where no one in authority could give any plausible explanation of why we were fighting in the first place. You will notice that since we were beaten we have become great trading partners with Vietnam and all the Dominoe Theory predictions have proven to be a lie.

An interesting question is why no similar public outcry against the Iraq war. Probably the government has gotten better at manipulating the press coupled with the overall decline in morality in this country.

 

You clearly missed the point. The post above is ad hom and strawmen which clearly provide no support for your OP.

It is your right in a free country to have an opinion. If you believe that Church and State should not be separate that is fine.

Just do not claim to have any respect for the Constitution in the same breath.

Further, do not be suprised when in that theocracy you dream of that you no longer have the freedom to have an opinion contrary to what that theocracy espouses.

It is a historical fact that mixing Church and State normally results in the state committing horrific atrocities. This is what the founders were trying to avoid and I concur.

As Im sure you are unaware, there were also many Christians and even Christian ministers that signed the Constitution.

 

In a similar vein, the more ice cream sells, the more shark attacks happen; and the more pirates there are, the worse global warming becomes.

Or to put it another way, correlation does not mean causation. Sweden is one of the most godless countries that ever existed - it is also the least civilised country ever to have existed?

 

You obviously have axes to grind as if your read the 'whole' thread you would find me 'not in favor of a theocracy' and never promoting 'joining church & state!"

But that would burst your balloon of intolerant liberal self-bias , huh? I'm afraid you have been building the strawmen....your hand is pointing 3 fingers back at ya...

I'll beg out gracefully from any tit-for-tatting and thus fanning the flames of your self-righteous indignation..ta ta

 

Oh, you mean this country


Surrounded by these countries:

Norway

and Denmark

All of these countries started out with the cross of Christ, but now are going down the tubes with high unemployment rates, legalized drugs, and loading down their Govts with entitlement teat-sucking....give then a few years!! Chk back with me in 10 yrs in regards to how great it is over there....

or


Wait...thats 'us' in the US going down the same path....

 

I never claimed you were in favor of theocracy.

If you do not favor separation of Church and State then in fact you are in favor of theocracy, like it or not.

It is no strawman to bring up the Constitution. The fact that you do not like the spirit nor the letter of the Constitution is not my fault and certainly no reason to start throwing insults my way in an attemp to demonize the messenger.

 

I'll leave you for the '3rd time,' with this:

How did the US survive w/o a theocracy and our present Constitution quoting and honoring God all these years until a few offended atheists started complaining?

[Btw, my 'ad hom' was in ref to your 'most intelligent Christians' comment with implications toward me and my discussion ..]

What am I up to now....ta ta ta?!

 

And this is the third time I have explained this to you.
Making laws on the basis of religion is different than some random politician saying a prayer in public.

Your question "how did the US survive" ??? Many countries survive with and without theocracies. The US can survive just fine regardless of whether or not it honors the constution.

What part of "I do not care about Christmas trees and public prayer" do you not understand? There is a difference between these things and making laws on the basis of religion which the Constitution specifically prohibits.

 

FYI:

There are 100's to 1000's of religions in the US now (all I need to do is start my own .org web page, register, and have my own) and we have been making 'allowances' for them as they come up (you know like, Muslims, not being searched by the TSA, foot washings in schools, etc, etc.) as "the majority rules with respect for minority rights;' And so when does the majority get 'allowances?!!' It is no longer 'ruling' with all the allowances having to be made that offend us! I'm offended by publicly disrespecting & publicly ignoring my God!

Btw, the majority used to pray in schools, and the respect for minority rights was that they didnt have to join in as not being forced--or they could say their own prayer to themselves.

A main aspect of 'my religion' will be being offended by the word 'Giftedone.' I consider any postings coming from such as being 'hate speech' and idolatry (that's worshiping false Gods, so ...) And it is no longer PC, and so you need to change it so as not to offend me....I'll be waiting, or better get a lawyer...!!

 

If you could go 'Back to the Future,' and accuse the ppl of the 40-50's of trying to promote a theocracy due to their public prayers, esp during war time, and also included God in their decision making; or go back to the 1st 100 yrs of our Republic, and accuse them of trying to promote a theocracy with public prayer, etc. how do you think they would view you?!

I'm done---my real life is calling....

 

I notice you didn't actually answer. I think I know why.

 

Guess you couldnt put 2 + 2 together and get the answer YOU wanted, huh?

Nations dont usually fall apart over nite...again, chk back with me in 10 yrs about the spiritual condition of Sweden, and whether an unemployed, drugged nation of youths who ran out of a small working classes' $, will still be 'civilized.'...they will start acting like Greece (just blond hair & blue eyes... )

But all basically coming down to a 'spiritual' problem!