The Nazi Party was not Right-Wing

if there were any form of capitalism that the nazis related to, it would be Keynesian economics.. which is hardly seen as a "right wing" ideology.. but even then so, Keynes himself didn't want government to dictate the market to the degree that the nazis did.. so in that sense the nazis were less right wing than Keynes. If the republican platform were for price control, wages and work hours being decided by the state, tighter tariffs and restrictions on trade, increases in public programs and government spending to drive the economy, but with strict regulations that puts many companies in complete control of the state + a much larger public sector in the economy ... then yes, they're identical

and here I haven't even mentioned the forced labor put on by their state..


Do we run into some policies in our economy that are similar to what the nazis used? sure, in the same way we use some similar policies to the soviet union. One could compare our over-inflated military and overcrowded prison system to the nazis, because many people believe (myself included) that we have a military and prison industrial complex that has contributed to these excessive expenses.. and to your credit, it is the republicans who do not seem to care about us spending too much on our military and our prisons (too many of our citizens being in prison)

...but again, the degree of state control that the nazis used is far from the American right wing, and in many cases would be considered the opposite

 

Yes. It was genocide inspired by eugenics, which was a big-time Progressive (er, read, um... Liberal) 'settled science' at the time, and promoted by big-time Progressives, up to and including the founder of Planned Parenthood!

Sounds pretty *******ned left-wing to me!

 

The issue is fluid understandings of what is right or left. If a party espoused it's policies today, you'd have a hard time considering it really left or right. Economically the Nazis were left, left, left! There were still people further to the left of them, but that doesn't make them right. But socially, the Nazis were right, though it's worth noting that their rhetoric wasn't uncommon for the day. In their own day, they were socially to the right, but their rhetoric wasn't even extreme for their day. They were exceptional in that their policies not only followed their rhetoric, but went further.

 

You mean that it is far from the RHETORIC of the American right wing and completely in harmony with their Patriot Act not to mention DARPA.

 

Oh I'm (*)(*)(*)(*)ing replying.

Literally check any history book other than that unsourced one you managed to dig up. Stalin's intelligence people knew Hitler was up to something, Stalin didn't care and didn't prepare because he thought it was a far off thing that wouldn't happen for a while. Well guess what? He got proven wrong right quick. This is just common knowledge, I didn't think I'd need to go listing off all my WW2 books as evidence against a bull(*)(*)(*)(*) claim you refuse to back down from that I have never heard from any source in my life except for you.

You think after learning as much about WW2 as I have I'll just buy your assertion based off a suspicious-looking, unscourced newspaper and a suspicious-looking, unsourced book, and your word that it's all true? Sorry I'm gonna need more corroborating evidence, as I have about a dozen history books here that can refute your claim.

Seriously, google it. There's a bunch of stuff debating whether or not Stalin was going to attack Hitler but the consensus, other than some not-so-well-hidden Nazi apologists, is that the whole assertion is on pretty shaky ground and there are much more plausible explanations.

But even assuming you were right, which I doubt you are, the only purpose of it would be as a pre-emptive attack against a Nazi assault that the Soviets knew was coming. It was not a plan for Stalin to conquer Europe, there is no evidence for that, you can stop with that horse(*)(*)(*)(*).

 

I like this description

The Nazis were not the same as conservatives then or now, nor were they the same as leftists. They were the meeting point of the crazy extremes of both, with green craziness thrown in. What distinguished them was their craziness, not their right or left wing character.

 

Interesting analysis.

This whole 'who is the Nazi' stuff is really stupid. Neither the American Right or the American Left are Nazi's.

I over-react and slip into it on occasion, but I really hate this whole attempt to label the Nazi's in order to attack whatever political party you disagree with.

 

That isn't the traditional right-left spectrum, therefore co-opting right-left to refer to freedom-totalitarianism is a misuse of the terms. I don't care what you want the terms to mean, left means equality, right means inequality. This is what they mean regarding politics, that's what they've always meant, that's what they mean to people other than you, so your definition doesn't matter.

I'm not arguing about who or what is a leftist or anything, I'm telling you your use of the terms left and right are wrong. Their definitions are not subject to your personal whims, we have definitions for them and you can either use them, or you can insist otherwise and look like you don't know what you're talking about. The world does not revolve around America - just because some Americans are too ill-informed to know the proper definition of left and right does not mean I and everyone else should change our meaning so that you can feel right.

There is a freedom-authority scale you can put things on, but the freedom-authority scale is not the same as a left-right scale because they describe different things, so stop pretending it is.

- - - Updated - - -

Nazism is fascist. Fascism is right wing. You people need to stop inventing definitions.

 

well that stuff is an entirely different subject from their economic policies.. but I do think you're touching on some big issues we're facing in modern day America, we're simply moving further away from a system that is a government run by its people, and more towards a government that is run by corporations (a power to the people who are rich enough to buy it)

but in the general sense, the nazi party was not pro-capitalist, many of their policies would in fact be on the opposite end of what is known in America as "right wing"

Where I find the nazi party to be an extreme right wing is on social order, they were very much so in favor of a state that gets involved in our personal lives. This could actually be tied in to things like the Patriot Act and the other policies you mentioned.

In short you could call the nazis authoritarian, but with a mix of some extreme right and extreme left policies.. and I'll leave it at that

 

Yes it really is very eloquent

 

Yeah, it generally is pretty stupid. The only political group that is the antithesis of Nazis are Libertarians.

 

....and ?

what's enough for Hilter ?

 

Lol...Yeah, I think you'll have more luck peddling this over at stormfront. People here won't buy such ignorant nonsense.

 

you are mistaken, it is not just that particular quote.. all of Hitler's statements on captialism were like that, it was his anti-capitalist ideology that made him an anti-semite. Back then anti-capitalism and anti-semitism were closely affiliated with one another, whether you were reading Proudhon, Bakunin, or even Marx (who is often described as a "self hating" Jew) One man who did not go along with this pattern was Vladimir Lenin, who directly acknowledged the affiliation made by the public of the Jews and capitalism. Lenin made it clear that he did not see the Jews as the enemy of socialism... Hitler on the other hand did not share that same logic.

Hitler and the entire nazi party were definitely not pro-capitalist, they expanded the public market, and maintained tight control of what was private.. but they did not try to abolish the private sector. They instead used it as a coalition, using public programs and government spending to stimulate those markets, but with prices and wages (as well as work hours) remaining under government control. Forced labor was also a significant portion of their economy

 

The USSR was founded as a Marxist-Leninist state, the closest you can get in reality to a communist country. Stalin made it all about him of course and didn't really care too much about the whole philosophy of it but he kept up the facade to extend some kind of token bull(*)(*)(*)(*) about how he cared for the Soviet people and all that. Nevertheless, the perception of the USSR from outside the country, based on the facade Stalin feebly put up and the founding principle of it, was considered a communist state. And as communism's complete opposite on the left-right spectrum, Hitler and his Fascists considered it his sworn enemy.

 

Like I said before the Nazis did have some good points. Respect for science to name one. I honestly think tea party conservatives have the potential to be a LOT worse than they were. And this comes from the son of a Holocaust survivor.

 

Capitalism is defined by private ownership of the means of production by capitalists and by the ability of capitalists to freely accumulate more capital. Such a system was never challenged by the nazis or any fascist system. They were opposed to liberal "free market" capitalism (I used quotes because free market capitalism is a misnomer), but they were capitalists nonetheless.

 

Nonsense there is nothing right wing about hitler. We was a socialist but added racism. He thought that was the ingredient socialism was missing. Goebbels was a dedicated socialist.

 

In a fascist society they dictate economic outcomes. Like under Obama, they feel free to print money and give it to their friends, and make demands of industry and keep control over them. This is not capitalism anymore then feudalism is capitalism. It is all
Lefterism, government control of the economy.

Here watch about how they nationalized industry. If you won't believe their speeches and actions there is no hope for you. They are clearly to the left of even the democrat party:

[video=youtube;v_I0UtFEHg4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_I0UtFEHg4&feature=youtube_gdata_player[/video]

 

So nationalizing industries is decidedly anti capitalist correct? Dictated production anti capitalist?

Why is free market a misnomer?

 

They invaded Poland together 2 years before the war. The fascist vs communist dispute is exaggerated. In practice where did hitler and Stalin really differ?

 

It doesn't matter what they actually did, all that mattered was the Hitler saw the USSR as his mortal enemy.

 

You are crazy then. Have yourself checked out. Spending within our means and not giving big cash to the rich and powerful is not worse then a holocaust.

The nazis were pro science? In what ways specifically that you like? Human experiments? Expelling scientific Jews or enslaving them? Building war equipment? In which ways specifically. How is the right anti science? Star wars? F22? Nuclear energy? Let's get into specifics.

 

And the rest of the world. Leftists hate each other all the time. One faction want to rule, the other disagrees.

Where are theY different in practice other then a dislike for each other? If I can link to a video of Castro calling Khrushchev a "(*)(*)(*)(*)(*) and a (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)" on national television does that mean Cuba isn't communist?

 

It is no use. The communist left on this board will never accept that their beloved Stalin was anything like hitler.