The utter fatuousness of saying the US is the Epicenter

Discussion in 'Coronavirus Pandemic Discussions' started by Pycckia, Mar 31, 2020.

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  1. Pycckia

    Pycckia Well-Known Member

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    Cuomo is saddled with the NY metro area and its high population density. Big dense cities are the petri dishes and NYC is the biggest and densest of all.

    MAGA country is going to do OK. Not that I take any joy in that fact. NYC was the greatest city in the world not so long ago.
     
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  2. AmericanNationalist

    AmericanNationalist Well-Known Member

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    I don't take any joy in it at all, but anyone who isn't the Left sees the man is a buffoon who just sat there for WEEKS while the epidemic was quickly growing inside the US. I do give him credit for wanting to respond now, but it's far too late(and thus looks comedic.)
     
  3. MrTLegal

    MrTLegal Well-Known Member

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    The counterpoint that you are failing to account for is the fact that the US had an extra week (at least) of lead time compared to the EU and Trump failed miserably to turn that extra time into a better result.
     
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  4. Pycckia

    Pycckia Well-Known Member

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    It seems to me we do have a better result. Deaths per million is better than the EU and the curve seems to be turning in the US slightly after it turned in the EU. The doubling time of hospitalizations in NYC is six days as opposed to three days a week ago.

    Of course we won't know until it is over but there is much more reason to believe that the US will not have as bad an experience as the EU than otherwise.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2020
  5. Texas Republican

    Texas Republican Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Trump is a counterpuncher. If you attack him, he punches back twice as hard. If you don't attack him, he probably won’t attack you.
     
  6. Texas Republican

    Texas Republican Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Trump is right on all of the policy issues. Why would I want to get rid of him? Besides, he's the only one doing anything about the virus. Pelosi just barks out foolish criticism.
     
  7. drluggit

    drluggit Well-Known Member

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    This sounds entirely dangerous then, don't you? I mean, if folks who have been told to self isolate believe that there isn't sufficient risk, then how can you explain the number of transmissions? Obviously, folks aren't heading the calls to protect themselves, or for that matter, others. The risk to Chicago is allowing folks to continue to travel, and not quarantining them on their return. But, should Chicago want, it could, like other parts of the nation, isolate itself. And ostensibly save everyone who livers there by not allowing the infection to enter into the city at all. But, we know that folks will continue to ignore their own safety because of the kind of logic that you've just documented.
     
  8. MrTLegal

    MrTLegal Well-Known Member

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    Deaths are a lagging indicator because it takes an average of around 20 days from infection to result in death. The deaths per million in the US will rise just as the infections per million in the US rose.
     
  9. MrTLegal

    MrTLegal Well-Known Member

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    Trump is a whiny little bitch who can't handle any criticism and has such a tremendous ego and willingness to lie that he can go from publicly saying that he wasn't worrying about a pandemic at all to claiming that he always knew that a pandemic was coming while simultaneously giving himself a 10/10 for his handling of this crisis.
     
  10. reedak

    reedak Well-Known Member

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    Trump is certainly right on all of the policy issues as he declares himself as the Messiah. :angel:

    In the end, history will prove which country sucks the loudest.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/a...osen-one-or-second-coming-he-s-just-panicking
     
  11. Texas Republican

    Texas Republican Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    He’s a little thin-skinned and he has a big ego. But he gets things done.

    He’s got a lot of the private sector helping out.
     
  12. MrTLegal

    MrTLegal Well-Known Member

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    I wish he had "got things done" about a month earlier instead of comparing the virus to the flu and saying that it would go away one day like a miracle.
     
  13. Pycckia

    Pycckia Well-Known Member

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    Sure. But they are a lagging indicator for everyone. The question is: will they be significantly worse than anyone else when the dust settles?

    We shall see. I suspect they will be because, if for no other reason, the US has a lower population density than European countries.

    You are certain they will be worse because Orange Man Bad. Liberals cannot entertain any positive outcome while Trump is in office despite being wrong on so many occasions.
     
  14. Pycckia

    Pycckia Well-Known Member

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    My question to you is, at that month earlier, were you wishing he were getting things done at the time. Or were you shouting for his impeachment, instead?

    How about all those Democrats running for the nomination. Why didn't they speak up?

    The whole world wasn't paying attention but, because Orange Man Bad, Trump is the one deserving criticism.
     
  15. Dispondent

    Dispondent Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Looks like China gave their marching orders and lo and behold liberals and the media deliver. Anything to take the focus off commie failure and make America and Trump look bad...
     
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  16. MrTLegal

    MrTLegal Well-Known Member

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    I made a post in the late days of February where I told everyone on this forum to start preparing for the virus by researching the virus personally and incorporating better safety practices into their daily life. A few days later, I started to incorporate the message that people needed to ensure that they could self-isolate for 2-3 weeks without relying upon deliveries or trips to the grocery store and to start engaging in social distancing, especially if they were at risk.

    At approximately the same time, Trump used the word "hoax" while discussing the virus and said the virus would one day disappear like a miracle.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2020
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  17. Pycckia

    Pycckia Well-Known Member

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    OK, you got started later than President Trump who declared a health emergency on January 31st, something he would not have done if he thought it was a hoax. And yes, someday the virus will disappear. I consider that statement to be of the morale boosting sort. But I don't put an Orange Man Bad spin on everything.

    You would have had Trump declare a health emergency on Dec. 31st, your wish that Trump had started a month earlier. That was about the time Ms. Pelosi was playing impeachment games.

    When did Biden start worrying about the virus? I know he decried the travel ban as racist. I suppose he wasn't too worried. That was on March 12, the earliest statement I can find of Biden saying anything, six weeks after the health emergency was declared.
     
  18. bx4

    bx4 Well-Known Member

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    Ignore China. Focus on your own country.
    And in USA, both infections and deaths are still growing exponentially. If European style restrictions are not introduced, expect the per capita numbers to catch and surpass the European numbers.

    Just over a week ago, one forumite asked “when will deaths even reach 100 per day?” We’ll, now it’s getting close to 1,000 per day.

    Infections in ISA are still increasing exponentially, and deaths lag infections by a week or two. This looks like it will get very very bad before it gets better. Trump’s slow response and weeks of downplaying the seriousness of this will cost thousands of American lives.
     
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  19. bx4

    bx4 Well-Known Member

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    You don’t know what you think you know.
    He didn’t do that. Lots of RW echo chamber headlines CLAIM he said that, but he didn’t.

    It’s just a Trump lie.
     
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  20. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, now that Pelosi killed American by tying up the Federal Government with impeachment when they needed to be focused on the virus.

    Then she fought Trump's China travel ban by encouraging folks to attend mass gatherings for Chinese New Year just three weeks before the San Francisco Bay Area was locked to stop the deadly spread of the virus. Over 4,000 Americans are now dead with the Bay Area one of the epicenters.

    She then delayed aid to Americans by torpedoing the bill after impeaching Trump for delaying aid to Ukraine.

    Her new priority? Tax Breaks for millionaires, billionaires and top earners.

    Pelosi Tax Cuts For The Wealthiest. “The government would lose out on $77.4 billion in tax dollars, with more than half of that amount being saved by taxpayers earning $1 million or more.”

    Crazy Pelosi says the move — which would include making it retroactive for the tax years of 2018 and 2019 — would give Americans “more disposable income, which is the lifeblood of our economy, a consumer economy that we are.”

    But Senate Finance Committee Chairman Chuck Grassley (R-IA) said it’s a terrible idea.

    “This is a nonstarter. Millionaires don’t need a new tax break as the federal government spends trillions of dollars to fight a pandemic.” ​
     
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  21. MrTLegal

    MrTLegal Well-Known Member

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    It seems convenient for you to argue that trump's national declaration on January 31st was the only evidence you need that he took this virus seriously and his subsequent statements from 5 and 6+ weeks later, statements that were objectively lies and designed to downplay the threat of the virus explicitly at the same time as the virus was spreading in the US, is "morale boosting sort."

    He repeatedly and explicitly lied about the virus, downplayed the threat of the virus, contradicted health experts, dismantled the epidemic response team, tried to cut funding to the health agencies, dismissed the intelligence official tasked with knowing about China, he touted the benefits of the virus, he politicized the virus, he placed Americans at increased health risk, and he slow played the testing through ineptitude and political self-interest.

    I will also echo @bx4 by noting that Biden did not call trump's policy of partial travel restriction xenophobic or racist.
     
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  22. Pycckia

    Pycckia Well-Known Member

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    I will not apologize for the fact it is easy to refute your statements.

    “This is no time for Donald Trump’s record of hysteria and xenophobia — hysterical xenophobia — and fearmongering,” said Biden the day after the travel restrictions were imposed.

    What was Biden referring to, if not the travel ban?

    https://nypost.com/2020/03/01/criticisms-of-trumps-coronavirus-response-are-sickening-devine/
     
  23. MrTLegal

    MrTLegal Well-Known Member

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    Trump's extensive history of xenophobia and racism (against black people, hispanics, and in favor of white supremacists) that was underlying a significant uptick in racist attacks against a new target (Asians).

    And if you'd like to refute my arguments, you can start with this non-exhaustive list of Trump ****-ups:

    Trump and his political appointees repeatedly lied about the virus: 1 and 2.
    They repeatedly downplayed the threat of the virus: 1 and 2.
    They repeatedly touted the benefits of the virus: 1 and 2.
    They repeatedly contradicted health experts: 1 and 2.
    They repeatedly placed the lives of Americans at greater health risk: 1 and 2.
    They repeatedly slowed the start of testing because of ineptitude and political self-interest: 1 and 2.
    They dismantled the epidemic response team, attempted to cut health budgets, and dismissed the expert on Chinese Viruses: 1, 2 and 3.
    They repeatedly politicized the virus: 1, 2 and 3.
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2020
  24. doombug

    doombug Well-Known Member

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    OP provides a link....try looking at it.
     
  25. Kal'Stang

    Kal'Stang Well-Known Member

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    Cute spin there. By saying it the way you did you perpetuate the idea that he called the virus a hoax. But you know he didn't.

    And yes, he did say that the virus would one day disappear. And it will. :shrug: By this time next year I doubt very seriously that anyone in the news will be covering it.

    So tell me MrTLegal, do you place the same criticism of "being slow on getting a handle on the virus" on Pelosi? Pelosi was out and about on February 24 in China Town shaking everyone's hands (literally).

    Or how about Gov Cuomo? De Blasio? Do you have at least the same criticism for him when he was telling people in February to go out and about? Ole' Gov Cuomo declared a lock down a few days after Trump declared a national emergency. Why didn't he do it sooner?

    Do you criticize Biden for claiming that Trumps ban on travel from China (except for citizens) was xenophobic? Or that Trump was "fearmongering" a day after Trump stopped travel from China? Do you even criticize him for even now saying that borders should not be closed?

    Or how about the media? Wapo ran an op ed entitled "get a grippe America. The flu is a much bigger threat than the corona virus, for now". Buzzfeed had an article that was entitled "Don't Worry About the Coronavirus. Worry about the Flu." around the same time Trump issued the travel ban from China. And I could name more articles.

    While Trump had offered to send China people to help back in January and closed all foreign travel from China (unless they were citizens of the US) Trump was also forming the task force for the virus in January (CNN analyst the day after played the race card calling Trumps task force "too white".

    Trump took action before any Democrat did. Yet I never see you criticize them. Why is that?
     
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