There is no hope for Islam.

"Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Deal firmly with them. Know that God is with the righteous. (Quran 9:123, "Repentance," Dawood, p. 206) OFFENSE, not defense. Now stop being ridiculous.

 

what is it then?

so when i said i saw a webpage that showed some contradictions
in the bible... why everybody jumped on me?

this is where we separate our ways.
i cannot base my belief on anything.
unless i witness it myself.

if i tell you that this "charles" guy is a bad person.
and publish 100 websites about it.
will you then believe me?

knowledge is power.
not diversion, not "what people think"...

you haven't read the qur'an in arabic.
now i'm sure.

or you have forgotten the experience.
or you have opened the qur'an thinking you spoke the language,
but in fact you could just count the alphabet "alif, ba, ta ,se...".

no sir.
even the most biased anti-islamic person who speaks mediocre arabic
cannot say this academically or conscientiously.

 

Response: Look. The deluded non-muslim realizes that he is so defeated in his arguments that he now has to shout in his posts for help. The hilarity is amusing.

 

Response: Says the person who gets his arguments completey dismantled everytime I respond. Your perverted ideology has been exposed already. You should think about saving yourself from further embarrassment.

 

"Will you not fight a people who have broken their oaths and who plotted to turn out the Messenger, and they were the first to commence hostilities against you?" (Qur'an 9:13 Al-Taubah). Self-defense, not offense. Now stop continuing to demonstrate how perverted your ideology of bigotry and violence is. We already know.

 

"[9.11] But if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, they are your brethren in faith; and We make the communications clear for a people who know.
[9.12] And if they break their oaths after their agreement and (openly) revile your religion, then fight the leaders of unbelief-- surely their oaths are nothing-- so that they may desist."

The very act of requiring people to submit to religion to "keep up prayer" to a Black Stone Idol, and to never revile such a foul Idolatrous religion with their mouths is an attack in and of itself.

"[9.29] Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.
[9.30] And the Jews say: Uzair is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!
[9.31] They have taken their doctors of law and their monks for lords besides Allah, and (also) the Messiah son of Marium and they were enjoined that they should serve one God only, there is no god but He; far from His glory be what they set up (with Him).
[9.32] They desire to put out the light of Allah with their mouths, and Allah will not consent save to perfect His light, though the unbelievers are averse.
[9.33] He it is Who sent His Apostle with guidance and the religion of truth, that He might cause it to prevail over all religions, though the polytheists may be averse."

Those scary mouths again. Anyone at all who doubts that Islam is incompatible with freedom of speech, only needs see that Christianity when applied as Jesus said does not fear a scary mouth that reviles Jesus or Christianity.

"may Allah destroy them"

What kind of fracking retard is that, is it man made or God made? Obviously a psychotic mind that cannot tell what is man made or God made.

 

Response: The same retard that wrote about Jesus in your own bible, "Think not that I came to send peace on earth. I cae not to send peace, but a sword". (Matthew 10:34). As demonstrated, islam is a religion of peace, while it is your bible that supports unjust violence.

 

You are always invited to try to do it and be sentenced to death like this guy Nadarkhani http://youcefnadarkhani.wordpress.com/about-youcef-2/

 

But what makes what they have on their websites "the truth"? Simply saying, "They tell the truth" does not explain how they are credible. Try again.

What exactly am I lying about? You jump from accusation to accusation, and nothing more.

Habibi, I'm not being slapped around. Big red words does not mean you are right and I am wrong and you haven't answered any of my questions, which I think are quite simple.

سلام

 

Typical response from anti-Islamic people. Tell me, why begin with verse 9:11? There are verses before this, you know.

Here is the entire context for that verse:

9:7 How can there be for the polytheists a treaty in the sight of Allah and with His Messenger, except for those with whom you made a treaty at al-Masjid al-Haram? So as long as they are upright toward you, be upright toward them. Indeed, Allah loves the righteous [who fear Him].
9:8 How [can there be a treaty] while, if they gain dominance over you, they do not observe concerning you any pact of kinship or covenant of protection? They satisfy you with their mouths, but their hearts refuse [compliance], and most of them are defiantly disobedient.
9:9 They have exchanged the signs of Allah for a small price and averted [people] from His way. Indeed, it was evil that they were doing.
9:10 They do not observe toward a believer any pact of kinship or covenant of protection. And it is they who are the transgressors.
9:11 But if they repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, then they are your brothers in religion; and We detail the verses for a people who know.
9:12 And if they break their oaths after their treaty and defame your religion, then fight the leaders of disbelief, for indeed, there are no oaths [sacred] to them; [fight them that] they might cease.
9:13 Would you not fight a people who broke their oaths and determined to expel the Messenger, and they had begun [the attack upon] you the first time? Do you fear them? But Allah has more right that you should fear Him, if you are [truly] believers.

To make it easier for you to see the context I bolder the verses you selected to quote, while leaving out the rest which are very important. You cannot understand something by reading from the middle of it.

What that shows, is there is nothing wrong with verse 9:11 or 9:12. And nowhere does it mention a black stone, nor do we worship this stone, so not sure what your point was. Infact it probably would have been the other way around, and the Pagans were the ones worshipping the stone. So... Refuted, no?

Then you bring up 9:29... Who are these people Muslims are too fight. Well, the first group are the Pagans. Then it mentions the people who've been given the Book. Well, look at history for this one. It is not referring to all People of the Book, rather the Romans who they were in conflict with.

You need to remember, these verses were given to Muhammad SAW during specific moments when he and the people needed guidance from Allah SWT. Muhammad SAW never went on a non-Muslim mass-murder rampage, therefore he would need no guidance on killing all non-Muslims.

سلام

 

Yeah, I read the whole thing, I saw nothing against what I said and still do not.


"9:8 How [can there be a treaty] while, if they gain dominance over you, they do not observe concerning you any pact of kinship or covenant of protection? They satisfy you with their mouths, but their hearts refuse [compliance], and most of them are defiantly disobedient."

"[9.8] How (can it be)! while if they prevail against you, they would not pay regard in your case to ties of relationship, nor those of covenant; they please you with their mouths while their hearts do not consent; and most of them are transgressors."

So let me see if I get this right, a "transgressor" is someone who is "defiantly disobedient," that includes just about all our Homosexuals, Atheists, Democrats, Ron Pods, hell the list is too long, and "they satisfy you with their mouths, but their hearts refuse [compliance]," means in context you are going to kill the bastards of they do not believe and comply with bowing down to your monotheistic Black Stone Idol Kibble and Bits[/b]?

Looks like an Idol, quacks like an Idol, it must be an Idol. If not an Idol stop praying toward it to be seen and judged of men.

 

Expose once again trying very hard to spin the context of the holy Quran, do you know that you will be accuse of being a hypocrite according to the Quran:

They make their oaths a shelter, and thus turn away from Allah's way; surely evil is that which they do.

"The thing from which I fear for you the most is the knowledgeable hypocrite." Hadrat Umar was then asked: "How can a hypocrite be knowledgeable?" To which Hadrat Umar answered: "He speaks with wisdom but acts with injustice."

Al Qaeda, Taliban, Hamas, and most Muslims like them are sincere and truthful they are not hypocrite and they practice what Quran 9:5 and all the verses of that kind according to the context, offensive warfare, give no shelter to the infidels, do not enter into treaty with them, seek them out where ever they are and kill them until they submit to the will of Allah....etc. etc.

This is self defence;

Psalm 144

1 Praise be to the LORD my Rock,
who trains my hands for war,
my fingers for battle.
2 He is my loving God and my fortress,
my stronghold and my deliverer,
my shield, in whom I take refuge,
who subdues peoples[a] under me.
5 Part your heavens, LORD, and come down;
touch the mountains, so that they smoke.
6 Send forth lightning and scatter the enemy;
shoot your arrows and rout them.
7 Reach down your hand from on high;
deliver me and rescue me
from the mighty waters,
from the hands of foreigners
8 whose mouths are full of lies,
whose right hands are deceitful.
10 to the One who gives victory to kings,
who delivers his servant David.
From the deadly sword
11 deliver me;
rescue me from the hands of foreigners
whose mouths are full of lies,
whose right hands are deceitful.

 

Response: Once again, the deluded non-muslim insists that verse 9:5 refers to offensive war, yet the word "offense" or anything synonymous to it is no where in the verse. Thus you've done nothing but demonstrate an inability to comprehend simple basic english, along with the fact that it is your ideology that is perverted and violent, not islam.

Verse 9:5 refers to self-defense, proven by the very context of the verse which states that it was the non-muslims who attacked the muslims first in 9:13. Debunked as usual.

As for your example of self-defense, your own bible contradicts that with "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth. I came not to send peace, but a sword". (matthew 10:34). Thus it is your own bible that promotes unjust acts of offensive violence, not islam.

 

And that's why marauding Muslims have killed 270 million people around the world right ? That's why they killed 3000 on 9/11. right ? That's why Nidal Hasan killed 13 of his own soldiers and wounded 32 others, all of these citing the Koran, and yelling "Allah Akbar". Islam - an ideology of war, and hatred, masquerading as a religion (for the gullible).

 

Mohammed's many mass-murderous rampages, and the words of the Koran OKing them, are the reason why so many Muslims don't speak out to condemn Islamic terrorism. Because to do so would be condemning Mohammed and the Koran, which they feel they can't do. So instead, they go around pretending it never happened. LOL.

 

Uhhhhh.... those books are considered Christian canon, Jesus makes multiple references to the texts as do many of the disciples (in fact Jesus wouldn't have become popular if they didn't refer to him as fulfilling the prophecies OF the Old Testament, the Christians worship the same God as Jews, and they are all included in every Christian Bible. What a ludicrous response.

 

Response: In other words, you still have no proof from the qur'an and sunnah itself that isla is not a religion of peace. Thanks for clarifying. Instead, you wish to claim that islam is violent because of the actions of muslims. Then according to your very logic, your ideology is false as well, based on the fact that non-muslims are also guilty of homicides and murders. Thus you've done nothing but once again confirm how perverted and unjust your own ideology is, not islam. Debunked as usual.

 

Why are you quoting from the Bible, I thought Muslims don't believe in the Bible? It makes no sense for you to quote Bible verses if you don't believe in it. Me, I believe in the Quran and Muslims claim that Islam is the true religion that is why I raise these questions to establish if it is true or not and so far base on your responses and what I am discovering about the Quran I say Islam is just a religion not the true religion of God.

Again and again, the radical mentality of Muslim have proven their intentional lack of understanding of English language and their own Quran a hypocrite that is in direct violation of Islam, indeed base on Muslims ignorance, Islam has no hope for peace.

"The thing from which I fear for you the most is the knowledgeable hypocrite." Hadrat Umar was then asked: "How can a hypocrite be knowledgeable?" To which Hadrat Umar answered: "He speaks with wisdom but acts with injustice."

That is why there is no peaceful Muslims because indeed Islam is about oppression and subjugation.
Muslim have perverted Islam and made these verses useless by abrgating it with 9:5 and all the other violent verses.

Quran 2:256 There shall be no compulsion in [acceptance of] the religion. The right course has become clear from the wrong. So whoever disbelieves in Taghut and believes in Allah has grasped the most trustworthy handhold with no break in it. And Allah is Hearing and Knowing.

Provocation is how Muslim define self defence:
"Abu Talib (Islamic historian), your nephew has reviled our gods, denounced our religion, derided our traditional values and told us that our forefathers were misguided. Either curb his attacks on us or give us a free hand to deal with him (Mohammed) for you are just as opposed to him as we are, and we will deal with him for you. Tabari, Vol 6, pages 93, 94, [2]

Quran respond to all those who resist:
Sura (8:12) - "I will cast TERROR into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads (behead )and strike off every fingertip of them"

Sura (47:4) - "So when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them, then make (them) prisoners,"

Sura 5:51 "O believers, take not Jews and Christians as friends; they are friends of each other. Whoso of you makes them his friends is one of them. Allah guides not the people of the evildoers."

Sura 8:37 "In order that Allah may separate the pure from the impure, put all the impure ones [i.e. non-Muslims] one on top of another in a heap and cast them into hell. They will have been the ones to have lost."

Sura 111.1 - 5 "May the hands of Abu Lahab [Mohammed's uncle, who had refused to embrace Islam] perish! Nothing shall his wealth and gains avail him. He shall be burnt in a flaming fire, and his wife, laden with firewood, shall have a rope of fiber around her neck!"

Our responds of such terror;
Psalm 144
Praise be to the LORD my Rock, who trains my hands for war,
my fingers for battle. He is my loving God and my fortress,
my stronghold and my deliverer, my shield, in whom I take refuge deliver me;
rescue me from the hands of foreigners whose mouths are full of lies,
whose right hands are deceitful.

 

Response: The deluded non-muslim apparently has no end to his delusion. In an attempt to show that islam promotes violence, you quote verses that speak of violence. Yet not a single verse states for muslims to attack first, nor can you quote and prove otherwise. Debunked as usual. The verses refer to self-defense, proven by the very context of the Qur'an, which states that it was the non-muslims who attacked first. (9:13). Thus you've done nothing but help to prove that it is your own ideology that is violent and unjust, for any person who would advocate that something is violent despite the proven fact that it is peaceful is because they themself are against peace.

Furthermore, we see from your own bible more proof that your violent ideology is against peace, as we read in Matthew 10:34, "Think not that I a come to send peace on earth. I came not to send peace, but a sword".

Thus it is proven that islam is a religion of peace, while it is your ideology that is violent and unjust.

 

To say that the Old Testament (Jewish Bible) is "Christian" is preposterous. It's like saying that Jesus Christ (that's where the word "Christian" comes from) is to be held responsible for things that were established hundreds of years before he was born. What a ludicrous response. And I've heard this idiocy 100s of times before. It's just as ridiculous as a lot of the other Islamapologist nonsenses. BTW, this thread is about Islam, not Christianity, remember ?

PS - apparently this statement was correct > "...you could not find the violence you spoke of in the Christian bible - the New Testament - or you wouldn't have resorted to post all this non-Christian stuff."

 

I agree with your PS, I do, but I don't know any Christian that COMPLETELY discounts the Old Testament. Are the Ten Commandments not a prominent part of Christianity? Is what God said before he came down as Jesus not important? Are you not obligated to follow the laws of the Old Testament?

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law (the Old Testament) or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law (the Old Testament) until everything is accomplished."

(Matthew 5:17-1

 

I have already proved that Muslims attack first, as does 1400 years of history. Here's a small partial of it :

Basra attacked/conquered - 634 AD

Damascus attacked/conquered - 635 AD

Ctesiphon attacked/conquered - 636 AD

Alexandria attacked/conquered - 641 AD

Sicily attacked/conquered - 666 AD

Kabul attacked/conquered - 670 AD

Jerusalem attacked/conquered - 687 AD

Carthage attacked/conquered - 698 AD

Southern Spain attacked/conquered - 711 AD

Narbonne (Southern France) attacked/conquered - 720 AD

Battle of Poitiers (France) - Muslim advance halted - 732 AD

Armenia attacked/conquered - 1064 AD

Battle of Manzikert - 1071 AD

Nicaea attacked/conquered - 1331 AD

Kosovo attacked/conquered - 1389 AD

Bulgaria attacked/conquered - 1393 AD

Constantinople attacked - 1453 AD

Greece attacked/conquered - 1460 AD

Belgrade attacked/conquered - 1521 AD

Siege of Vienna (attacked) - Muslim advance halted - 1683 AD

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3047031400466157880#docid=9006173854345334413

 

why do neo nazi islamophobes quote from the quran if they don't believe in it?

why do they always quote out of context so that they can demonise the religion and all 1.2 billion of its followers?

the agenda is to tell lies about Islam in order to create fear and hatred of ordinary people who just want to live their lives.

what kind of mind would deliberately do that?

the same kind that promoted hatred of the Jews duringth eholocaust.

the same kind that demonised the tutsis in Rwanda before the massacre in 2004.

the same kind that fed Breivik's hatred towards Islam and immigrants that allowed him to believe himself a hero for urdering scores of young people because they supported a party whose policy was social inclusiveness of immigrants.

a sick and evil mind.

 

You know a Christian who COMPLETELY discounts the old Testament now > ME. And I know hundreds of Christians who completely discount it as well > all the people in the Catholic schools that I attended as a kid, including the clergy. As for Matthew's quote, it was written by a man named "Matthew" but it is highly unlikely that this Matthew was the apostle of Jesus Christ. Since the Gospel of Matthew is known to have been written in 90 AD (67 years after the death of Christ), it's not too likely that the Gospel writer ever even met Jesus, who was a generation or two ahead of him. The Gospels are known to have been written by younger generation Christians, and the words they attribute to Jesus are historical, not necessarily of their personal witness.

 

hate sites are not reliable sources of information.

on this forum you have repeatedly proved yourself ignorant of history.