There really is a god....

What do you mean by "But not as Religious people think"?

Many religious people believe this. Most theists I have had reasonable discussions with see the old-man-in-the-clouds god as a sort of a place holder for the actual god, an icon or a way or wrapping your head around the god-concept. An easy way of drawing or thinking of God.

It's mostly atheists who try to convince people that theists believe in some remote wizard with ultimate power.

 

Did I say that nature is some magic energy field that allows people to shoot lightning? No. So how is it that you compare it to the Force?

Every aspect that can be used to describe a god, aside from the western view, where god has to be a humanoid figure, can be used to describe nature, if you look at it from a certain point of view.

 

Please see Swenson's post. Your description is not what Westerners really think God is like, and your personal view of (as I said) an amorphous non-entity is exactly like Spielberg's imagined "Force."

 

That's actually my point. Every god in the history of mankind were created to explain what could not be understood. All gods were just ways to explain nature. The same could be said about the greek gods......Or any other god that was ever created to explain natural phenomenon.

I have seen people people claim that the existence of nature proves that god created it, but that's not true....All it proves is that the force of nature exists.

 

Thank you. But I don't really view it as a thoery. We know beyond the shadow of a doubt that nature exists. The creation of the universe and the existence of all life, from humans and animals, to plants proves that. Nature is indeed a actual entity. I am not claiming that is it a living being, merely that it is a controlling force.

I have heard some people claim that God exists outside of nature and that he controls it, but can not be seen by studying nature. This could be true. There is always the chance that God created nature as the controlling force of the universe and every aspect of nature was predetermined.

It is quite possible that my view of nature could merely be a part of the true nature of God.

 

I never said that nature was a deity. I said it could be viewed as one if someone takes into account that every aspect of what a god is viewed to be can be attributed to nature.

 

Way to backpedal...

 

Yes, but every aspect of nature can be directly attributed to nature through scientific study.

THe idea that a divine god is behind it relies completely on faith and can't be proven.

And as I said before, I do not view nature a a divine being, at least in the same way other gods are. For example, I do not think nature interferes in people lives. It is not a sentient being that knowingly creates. It is more of a force, for the lack of a better word, that is ever present and drives all aspects of the universe that can be found naturally, including lesser forces, such as gravity and light.

And nature is not limited to animals and plants, and other things like that. It determines other things, such as how plantets and stars and other things are formed and which gases are formed to create an planet's atmosphere. Even the b ig bang was driven by natural forces.

Now, as I said in an earlier post, it is quite possible that there is a divine being that exists outside of nature, and put it in place purposely. When I was younger, and still actively Christian, I held the believe that the Nature was put in place at the time of the big bang, by god, and god merely created nature to control the universe.

Anyone who has read the wheel of time would understand this type of system. It would be very simular to how the Pattern is created in the series.

However, I have seen many things that have made me question the existence of a divine god. So I tend to beleive that nature is a system in and of itself withou divine creation.







I would also like to add something else. Some earlier said that this is a very "eastern" view. I thought this was ironic because I have always thought that there is a type of reencarnation, which is a common belief in eastern religions, in this beleive. I will explain..

When humans die, we are buried in the ground. As our bodies decay, we become minerals and nourishment for plants. We become part of these plants. These plants are eaten by animals who then use them for nourishment. So the plants, that we are part of, become part of the animal. This cycle has been called many things, from the Food Chain, to the Circle of Life, but it is always part of nature.

 

If, as you say, "it is quite possible that my view of nature could merely be a part of the nature of God", and you cannot PROVE that claim, then you are still speculating, guessing, fantasizing, being whimsical, capricious, ambiguous, etc. Consider what you really want to claim.

 

That is exactly what I said, I said from a certain point of view, nature can be viewed as a god. I never once said it was a divine being.

 

ALl religion is speculation. The fact that people have faith in their guesses and beleive them does not change that fact.

 

Thought as much. Thanks.

 

So you are saying that a person's beliefs are meaningless unless they believe in a divine personal god

 

I don't think that's a generalization that Felicity would identify with but rather that if those beliefs concern deistic, pantheistic, animistic or anything but theistic gods then, since those gods are meaningless, the beliefs would be meaningless as well.

If I understand her correctly, that is.

 

I would like to clarify something.

I never said, or intended to say that nature is in fact a god. I said, from a certain point of view, it can be viewed as such, because nature has all of the attreibutes of a god.

My view is less of a god and more of all aspects of of the universe are part of a whole. This whole, nature, is not a seperate force. But at the same time, it causes and drives all forces throughout the universe. Life, death, creation, destruction, even forces such as gravity, friction, ect, are part of nature. Nature is made up of all of these things, but at the same time causes them. Everything in the universe is part of nature. Humans, being sentient beings, can go against nature and create for ourselves. However, we, and all of our creations will eventually be returned to nature.

 

So without any evidence to support your claim, that claim is no different than my saying my 'thoughts' can be viewed as a 'god'. Of course that is using the same level of logic that you are using. In fact, using that type of logic, all you are doing is confirming the existence of any and all gods and God Himself. Congratulations on taking that first step forward by climbing half way out of the box.

 

Have you read the title you gave your thread?

 

No...how do you get that?

 

Strangely put, but yes. They are white noise that do not actually touch a reality one could call God. They are non-beliefs about the nature of the existence rather than beliefs about Divinity.

 

but people can

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FY-AS13fl30"]BIGGG TESLA COIL OF OKLAHOMA - YouTube[/ame]

nature has all the 'force' and with 'god' (nature) understanding mankind can 'create' life without intercourse [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqu8Y4XGFK4"]First test tube baby Louise Brown (197 - YouTube[/ame]

nice point of fact

 

Except that nature, and it's effects in the universe can be viewed using scientific observation.....No other "god" can.

 

What is 'scientific observation'? What happened to just plain ole 'observation'?
Are you changing the parameters and or requisites in the middle of the game?

 

'science' implies integrity

You witness what you've never seen.

Big difference!

 

You now calling yourself god and announcing that you are capable of KNOWING what is in the entire life of another person... KNOWING all of that persons experiences in life? I would be more accurate in saying that you are speaking through a condition of 'ignorance of the subject matter'. . . the subject matter being my 'experiences' and what I have 'witnessed'.

 

You may state what you believe you saw on peyote or even within the fignewtons of your imagination.

I am no god over anything but my own actions.

i know what is real and what is not even possible. If you want to know why, it is because i know 'god' personally; your living in it (mother nature). So if 'god' dont do magic, then only in your mind and the garbage of the liars does the BS continue.

I know 'gods' name. DO you?

i am ignorant of many things, i can agree but when it comes to nature (god itself) you have no idea how much LOVE i have for truth and 'god' (nature) itself.

drunks claim they see pink elephants too................

i have even had dreams........... but unless, i can ground them to something comprehensible, then like a painting, each mind can create.

When it comes to reality or clearly what is real, i dont play.

Go back into your bible, look up rev 22:4 and when you can understand what 'god' is, then you would be real close to knowing what is real.

ie.... "eden restored" ,,,,,,,,,,,,, Means WHAT?