Pre-Christian Religions The practice of baptism in pagan religions seems to have been based on a belief in the purifying properties of water. In ancient Babylon, according to the Tablets of Maklu, water was important as a spiritual cleansing agent in the cult of Enke, lord of Eridu. In Egypt, the Book of Going Forth by Day contains a treatise on the baptism of newborn children, which is performed to purify them of blemishes acquired in the womb. Water, especially the Nile's cold water, which was believed to have regenerative powers, is used to baptize the dead in a ritual based on the Osiris myth. Egyptian cults also developed the idea of regeneration through water. The bath preceding initiation into the cult of Isis seems to have been more than a simple ritual purification; it was probably intended to represent symbolically the initiate's death to the life of this world by recalling Osiris' drowning in the Nile https://www.bible.ca/ef/topical-baptism-a-prechristian-history.htm Shall we move on to Christmas and Easter too....?
Nope, not the judge. I am not deciding innocence or guilt. I am merely pointing out the obvious immorality of eternal torment as a punishment. And if you were honest with yourself, you would agree.
I am very honest with myself and I don't want myself and others to live eternity in a place where there is no justice, only confusion from those that will not submit to a higher uniting God whose only desire for us is that everyone would come to repentance. He paid a price so that everyone could do it.
Thanks for that information. It all seems to be pretty true. Baptism doesn't "save" anyone. It is a ritual Christians partake in to signify on the outside what has taken place on the inside. It is a unifying ritual and is done in obedience to Christ. Christmas? Jesus was probably born in the spring when the sheep were out to pasture. Just so happens we honor Him on the 25th of December and every other day. (We now honor Lincoln on Washington's birthday I believe) No big deal! Easter? We know that Jesus was crucified on Friday and rose from the dead on Sunday. We do know it all coincides with Jewish Passover and they are pretty accurate historically with their dates. The exact date? Not sure. I don't think unbelievers are concerned about the exact date anyway. Many of them just don't like the fact Jesus is honored on any day!
Near death experiencers are reporting that the afterlife has many levels.... when we first go there we choose to go with the people who are most like us in our approach to others.... and to our Creator..... The evidence is impressive that we can choose to move upward to higher levels of love and understanding..... but the more progress that we make while we are human is very important. https://near-death.com/mormonism/
Important to my Methodist faith are two sacrament, baptism and communion. Neither "saves" the persons involved but each is a means of Grace which involves God as an active participant. Baptism represents entry into our spiritual community and is a commitment to strive for a life dedicated to following God's will, and communion is spritual nourishment to sustain our faith on our journey,
He created a version of himself so he could sacrifice himself to himself to pay the price for us to avoid a punishment he created. Like I said earlier, NONE of this makes any sense.
The assumption that baptism originated outside God's inspiration only considers written records of the ritual. It could have been part of the orally passed down directions from God, originally given to Abrahamic descendents which included both Israeli and Arab people. https://questions.org/attq/who-are-the-descendants-of-abraham/ Not all the previous history of baptism had to be mentioned in order for Israelis to follow it once the rite was officially given to them in writings that were then passed down. In some writings, which were not sanctioned by the God of Israel, you might find similarities with some minor embellishments/changes by other nations.
Death is when the brain ceases activity. Therefore during a "near death" experience the brain is undergoing a loss of function. Anything anyone experiences "near death" cannot be trusted. It is the brain malfunctioning as it is being deprived of oxygen.
I suppose I should admit that for all that I KNOW you could be correct but....... ... I have to say that I have been studying NDE accounts rather seriously since 1989 or 1990.... and I personally have came to a whole new understanding of the entire Jewish and Christian scriptures due to these accounts. I would not have done that if I did not take these accounts very seriously! One admission that I can make is that if I were to end up spending centures.... or millennia..... in the afterlife... with Latter day Saints...... I would consider myself to be greatly privileged. I am not surprised at all that Dr. Jordan Peterson was brought up as a Latter day Saint.... and I think that he still is one! LDS are some of the most astonishingly well read..... and funny..... and outside of the BOX type of thinkers that I have ever met from any large branch of Christianity! No wonder that I have such high expectations of what they will accomplish over the coming years.... and decades.... and centuries!!! Brigham Young University in Jerusalem and peace in the Middle East
I would say death is very much like sleep. Dreams during this period of time is natural, but are but partial memories of what takes place when awake. Many times our dreams take place when we are in the waking up stage. These NDE might be influenced by memories, that begin to take shape during the waking up stage. Time is meaningless while asleep and absolutely meaningless when we are dead, where there are no memories at all. Psalms 6:5 “For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?”
You can say death is very much like sleep but you would be wrong. From a physiological standpoint there is a HUGE difference between death and sleep.
I said it's like (similar) to sleep. Please pay attention to what words I choose to use. Words, even the little ones have meaning/purpose.
"Studying NDE accounts" Do you mean an academic/scholarly study or "I've read a lot of NDE accounts"? I'm assuming you mean the latter.
The ONLY "similarity" is that in both cases you are not aware of the passage of time. And even then the reason for that is different. That's it. Time is not "meaningless" while you are asleep. Your body is still functioning, your heart is still beating, you are still breathing. All of those functions are taking place over a period of time.
The topic of this thread concerns four thousand new Believers who were baptized and gave their lives to Christ. This all stems from a revival of a Spirit led movement in the Body of Christ. This in no way relates to the teachings of Joseph Smith and his secret doctrines and in no way symbolizes any type of baptism taught in the Mormon Church. If others want to follow these doctrines of "works' that of course is up to them. It is a complicated path that is far from the ones these Believers have set out upon..... a simple one of Salvation by Grace, a gift of God.
So simple that since it's introduction the believers have split themselves into an almost uncountable number of different faiths and factions. They have killed each other over who has the correct interpretation. People have been murdered by those claiming to be the followers of the "true" religion. People have been conned out of life savings by those claiming to be the real prophets of the "one true God" The "message" is anything BUT simple. You would think that the all powerful, all knowing creator of the universe would have been able to devise a way to make sure that the most important message he could deliver (salvation of man and eternal life) was more unambigious.
But.... when a young Latter day Saint prays... and asks for guidance by the Holy Spirit...... ... are they then sent a serpent...... or demon?????? "If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent?" [Luke 11:11] I perceive that to some degree Yabberefugee.... you are making something of a similar error to what I once made myself....... I allowed PRIDE to turn me into a modern Christian Scribe or Pharisee..... (to a degree]???!!! Pride..... causes older Christians like myself.... to become a STUMBLINGBLOCK for new converts... and our pride can cause us to do more harm than good. I am of the belief that a similar percentage of Latter day Saints receive the Holy Spirit when they ask for the Holy Spirit... as happens to Baptists... or Pentecostals... or Seventh Day Adventists..... or United Church.... or Anglicans.... or Episcopalians... or any other large or not so large Holy Spirit led church.......?! Have you read The Final Quest or The Call by Pastor Rick Joyner? If so... do you think that there are lies or errors in those two books? If so... I would love it if you were to show me what specifically is anything that he wrote that is in error.... because I believe that Pastor Rick Joyner had a powerful visionary dream back in 1995.... and I believe that the Holy Spirit helped him to remember the dream.... and his books remind me of the books by C. S. Lewis! In my opinion.. your PRIDE YABBEREFUGEE... YOU ARE IN DANGER OF BEING A PART OF THE EVIL ARMY that was shown to Pastor Rick!!!! But I am often wrong.... and I would love to find out later on that I was terribly incorrect in this concern of mine at this time????!!! Casting Pastor Rick Joyner as one of the Two Witnesses in an alternative universe....
Dennis.....you are a real hard act to follow. So much knowledge and many words. The yoke that Jesus gives us is very light and easy to follow. Joseph Smith gives us a whole new list of new definitions for words like Grace, Salvation, Holy Spirit and even Jesus. That is why it is so easy for them to deceive. I don't look to a name, Pastor Rick Joyner, Joseph Smith, Benny Hinn or any other. Universalism just doesn't offer what the Blood of Jesus does. Note: I do not label myself as anything but the Body of Christ. Neither do I consider myself a modern day Scribe or Pharisee. Those are churches of "works". How many hoops do you jump through to consider yourself saved?So these new guru's you always talk about, Dennis, is it Joseph Smith? or is it Rick Joyner? I've heard you talk of many of these teachers. Why didn't Jesus my Lord,God and Savior mention any of these new revelations? Did you ever listen to David Koresh? or how 'bout Jim Jones? I'll bet Jim Morrison of the "Doors" had out of body experiences....how 'bout him? Why did Jesus keep us Christians so ignorant of an "alternative universe"? Do we need to be men of many words, as you are, in order to deserve a place in "paradise" as the thief on the cross achieved?
Splits are caused by men as yourself that seek their own ideas as something to be worshipped. Remember the precept I taught you Nwolfe? "God gives Grace to the humble but He resists the proud". There are millions upon millions of humble Christians that look nowhere else but to the Saving Grace of Jesus Christ. Not Joseph Smith, Rick Joyner, Dennis Tate or even Nwolfe35.
And yet there are millions of Catholics, split between West and East...millions of Protestants split between hundreds of sects with each sect have many factions. Which one is right? Here's a hint, they can't all be right...but they sure as hell can all be wrong.
