To all the border bellyachers out there, tell me what YOU would do, if YOU were President

LoL.

 

That's not accurate:

Since President Joe Biden took office, there have been some notable trends in crime rates in the United States. Let’s break it down:

1. Murders:
   • Crime data show a decrease in murders in U.S. cities during 2022 and 2023 1.
   • The number of murders declined by 5.6%, totaling an estimated 21,156 last year 2.
2. Violent Crime Rate:
   • The violent crime rate dropped significantly, going from 369.8 per 100,000 population in 2020 to 6.3 per 100,000 population in 2022 2.
   • This represents a 15.4-point decrease in the violent crime rate.

That wasn't the point. If Trump's numbers were only better because of cruelty, then those numbers aren't valid. Zero tolerance led to 2200 children losing their parents and a substantial portion of those were for a crime no worse than a misdemeanor. That's cruel.

In July 2019, the Trump administration announced new immigration rules that ended asylum protections for almost all migrants arriving at the U.S.-Mexico border, which was in violation of both U.S. and international law, and this is cruel.

In November 2018, Trump implemented an “asylum ban” that barred immigrants who entered the country between border checkpoints from claiming asylum, disregarding legal norms. Cruel.

During the Trump administration, several border policies were widely criticized for their perceived cruelty and controversy.

1. Title 42: In March 2020, the Trump administration invoked Title 42, a statute ostensibly meant as a public health measure during the Covid-19 pandemic. Under this policy, US authorities swiftly expelled migrants, including asylum seekers, at the border. Nearly 400,000 people were detained and expelled between its implementation and January 2021. Critics argued that Title 42 allowed the US to expel asylum seekers without any legal process, and organizations like Human Rights Watch deemed it “illegal and violative of human rights” 1.
   
   
2. Migrant Protection Protocols (MPP): Implemented in January 2019, MPP forced asylum seekers to wait in Mexico for their US immigration hearings. This policy faced significant backlash due to the harsh conditions and risks faced by migrants while waiting in Mexico 1.
   
   
3. Family Separation: The Trump administration’s “zero-tolerance” policy led to the separation of families at the border. Children were taken away from their parents, causing widespread outrage and condemnation 2.
   
   
4. Weaponizing Legal Status: The administration targeted immigrants’ legal status for political purposes, leading to visa cancellations without proper explanation or justification 2.
   
   
5. Zeroing In on Good Samaritans: The Trump administration took a hardline stance against individuals and organizations providing humanitarian aid to migrants, leading to legal actions against those who offered assistance 2.
   
   
6. Hiring a Ruthless Nativist: The appointment of a nativist as the primary policy architect further fueled controversy and concern about the administration’s approach to immigration 2.

Another poster has argued that removing the cruel Trump policies creates an incentive for more illegals to come. That is a good point, however, it misses the more salient point that the fact that if the only way to reduce the numbers is via cruelty, that isn't a valid statistic because unnecessary cruelty is immoral from a Democrat's perspective, and thus those numbers are not a merit worthy comparison, in my opinion.

 

Lot of words, total ignorance of meaning - the point was the numbers of those crimes were augmented by catch and release immigrants. Nice try.

Now read this

 

empty.

 

Touch a nerve, eh? LOL!

 

"lots of words' is not an argument.

Apparently you missed the part of that article that it's information is based DOJ report done in 2018, when TRUMP WAS PRESIDENT.

A 2021 Department of Justice report revealed that 64% of federal arrests in 2018 involved noncitizens, despite them comprising only 7% of the population at that time.

The stat you referred to doesn't distinguish between 'arrests for being illegal' and 'crime'. But what they don't do is increase the OVERALL crime stat, the only relevant crime stat, which has gone done DOWN since Biden.

So, what is your solution? That is what the thread is about.

 

You've missed the point. My point was and is that allowing unvetted illegal in to the country contributes to crime stats.

Given the fact crime stats are coming down and I just demonstrated that a significant number of them were committed by no citizens - imagine how LOW those states would be IF illegals hadn't been turned loose in the country.

 

Some want SIMPLISTIC answers / solutions to complex issues. That is why "the wall" appealed to them so much.

It is not the bill itself. It is pretty good (nothing is eprfect), it is sheer POLITICS and the fact that Trump decided to meddle to telling them not to approve it. The silly lacky's obeyed their master. Trump selfishly did not want it to pass as it would give Biden a success. And Trump can't have that as people might realize that Biden is actually doing some good works. Without the bellicose blathering and gloating. Johnson is one of the worst speakers as he panders to Trump who is not even in charge.
This is cesspool politics at its worst. and it is destroying the nation.

 

Cherry picking is not proof nor a good basis for argument. From your posted site-

https://www.cato.org/blog/new-research-illegal-immigration-crime-0

So from the article in CATO, not exactly a liberal leaning outfit by any stretch, we find that native born Texans are twice as likely as illegal immigrants and nearly three times as likely of convictions as legal immigrants. Looks to me like Texas needs to deport their native born as they are far more likely to be committing crimes.

 

I realize that was your intent, but I merely pointed out the weakness of your position. Those able to defend a position on merit don't need to resort to such trump-like tactics.

I can easily show how incentivizing illegal immigration makes the problem worse. Can you defend your party's position on incentivizing illegal immigration?

 

It's really not that difficult. There is no asylum requests unless it's requested at a registered port of entry. If you're caught crossing the border illegally you will be immediately sent back. If that doesn't work, increase the criminal penalties for crossing the border illegally. Make it a felony so even if you get here, you immediately become a felon.

 

Daca creates a perverse incentive. You create that incentive, and you continue to get the problem. The wall can make it more difficult, but its never going to be a 100% solution if they all know they need only toss a pregnant woman over, under, through, or around (using the coasts), or drag a minor with them.

This is why you specify that entry without inspection voids many rights one could otherwise claim, you bar these claims by law when the entry was without inspection and you don't have this issue.

 

so your saying better to have a open border then support those DACA Children - Trump made his choice

yes, if you change the constitution from natural-born.... then laws can address what you are referring too - the DACA children were children already born though and then brought here as children

 

You don't have to support a lesser of evils dude. You can both build the wall and close off daca. These are not mutually exclusive.
You understand that trump was not the deciding factor in a vote amongst the legislature.... right?

Daca refers to children who were brought in tow, already alive and not natural born citizens by definition. The concept you refer to is called an "anchor baby" and yes I'm suggesting we alter the Constitution using Article V to put some strings on birth right citizenship that do not presently exist.

 

obviously not, Trump did not get his wall, but he could have for DACA

and yes, that is what I said "the DACA children were children already born though and then brought here as children"

 

Then trying to paint it as all cheetodick's fault is a non-starter. It takes several hundred people to tango in the realm of US policy.

 

Correcting some misinformation. It’s been claimed it is not illegal to enter the US between ports of entry to claim asylum. This is not only unsubstantiated opinion, it’s factually incorrect.

https://www.arizonaimmigration.net/asylum-at-the-border-frequently-asked-questions

So anyone crossing anywhere but a port of entry has committed a crime punishable by a fine and/or 6 months in jail.

Only 8% of asylum seekers from Guatemala actually qualify (as one example). Around 14% of total asylum seekers in the US actually qualify.

https://www.justice.gov/eoir/page/file/1107366/download

We have the tools already to stop most of this border nonsense. We just aren’t enforcing the law.

Hope that clears things up a bit for those who get their information from opinions of journalists etc.

 

Trump was offered his wall, he did not act on it, that is on Trump

 

Here have this nice piece of cake, and the poison that's inside it.

What's wrong? You don't want cake? That's on you.

See how that works? Poison pills are on the one who put them in there. Trump was executive, not legislative, branch. He doesn't get to write the law. Someone else does. He doesn't get make amendments to the law. Legislators do. His party didn't put in the poison pill. Its opposite number did. Ergo, its opposite number shoulders its own share of the blame.
As stated: It takes several hundred parties to tango in US policy.
QED

 

the wall for daca, seems like the right would support that, but maybe the wall is not really as important to them as some on the right say

so Trump had no pull with Republican in Congress?

 

Besides all the logical solutions we know can work, can all those defending our open borders and “take in anyone breathing” policy we currently have…

Do you give a **** how many people are killed by illegals every year? Do you care that our own homeless and veterans are being treated worse than the scum we’re seeing causing chaos in our cities? Selling drugs? Rape. Murder . Gangs? Do you care at all?

When has it been our obligation to SAVE poor people from other countries. And that’s all it is. POOR people. They are no bordering countries at war. Our country is not their only refuge. We don’t OWE them free healthcare and education and HOUSING!! We owe them NOTHING!

 

If you give amnesty, you tell people if they come in enough numbers you'll do it again. See: Every amnesty we've ever given was supposed to be the last one and only increased illegal immigration.

Cite the republican who added or refused to remove the poison pill then.

 

these are children that came here via no choice of their own, they went to school here, this is the only country they know

and republicans said, nope, having the wall is not more important than punishing the DACA children

 

If you create a perverse incentive, you get more of a thing not less. More children put in danger, more children shoved into foster care when you deport their parents, more american citizens displaced in violation of our laws.
You cut off the perverse incentive that is amnesty programs, you make the attempts far more dangerous, and you require asylum claims to go by way of ports of entry or get sent back.

No, they said they'd rather not eat cake with poison in it, and if all they were able to do was get rid of the poison that's what they'd do.
The children may blame their parents for putting them in this position.

 

but but, if you have a wall they can't come per the right