Vaccination after infection? Help me understand.

Those failures were in effectiveness, not something worrying like bad side effects. RNA degrades very quickly once in the body. The recent advances have been around making it survive longer and be taken up more quickly.

What, exactly, could cause a vaccinated person to be more likely to die when encountering a variant compared to someone who is not vaccinated?

 

Not true. They failed because of adverse effects.

ADE is a distinct possibility.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12725690/

Also these novel treatments only bind to one protein on the virus unlike normal vaccines.

 

That's not a drug trial. Maybe you can quote what you think the relevant part of that link is.

 

You didn’t read it obviously. You didn’t even read the title.

 

It seems that you are completely missing the point that I am making... The point is that they are two completely unrelated things in both cases... This eventually stems back to the 'correlation does not equal causation' truth.

 

So we agree then. Vaccines are not necessary to achieve herd immunity.

Great. If you wish to get vaccinated, then feel free to do so. I simply don't wish to do so and would like government to leave me alone and let me live my life without any covid tyranny stopping me from doing so.

Fine. I've now seen some evidence. I have now also dismissed it due to the reasoning that I mentioned.

Not for this jab... take a look at the VAERS database and compare the numbers from the small portion of this year to prior years.

Some of those things are fairly standard reactions, but most of them are not.

I thought I answered this, but I will do so here in case I didn't. I am specifically against the covid jabs (which are not vaccines). While I am not anti-vaxx as of currently, I have started to lean a lot more towards that direction ever since I began looking into numerous vaccines and what is in them and etc...

IOW, I don't consider myself to be anti-vaxx, as I atm think that vaccines for serious ailments are useful, but I currently lean a lot more towards the anti-vaxx side of the spectrum than I have done at any other moment of my life. I now see absolutely no reason for flu vaccines and vaccines for other ailments which are not all that serious.

 

Bingo. They are members of the Church of Covid, a fundamentalist style religion. It stems from the Church of Karl Marx.

 

I read the abstract and assumed you had posted it by accident, since the mentioned commonalities of viruses likely to exhibit ADE don't fit SARS-CoV-2. Also, ADE is most commonly seen with vaccines that include multiple versions of the virus, which none of the covid vaccines do. I guess I gave you too much credit. My mistake.

 

Relates to all Covid viruses but guess you don’t understand that. This treatment is even more dangerous than regular vaccines as it targets only one protein of the virus. Regular virus vaccines target much more.

 

If you don't care how many people die in the mean time, sure.

Great, again, you're welcome to freeload off the herd immunity the rest of us are helping to achieve. It's unfortunate that you won't contribute, considering there are so many others who cannot be vaccinated that will continue to be at risk at a lower vaccination percentage. It's like parking in a handicapped space when you aren't handicapped.

VAERS accounts are not vetted in any way, and way more people have been vaccinated this year than are normally vaccinated in any given year. Compared to last year, the number of VAERS reports has actually increased at a lesser rate than the increase in vaccinations. That is evidence against the idea that the covid vaccines are any more dangerous than other, routine vaccines.

Every one of them is reported for almost every vaccine that has ever been developed and distributed. They are common reactions to the adjuvants, preservatives, and media used for the vaccine, as well as immune responses.

Okay, good to know what level of denialism I'm dealing with.

 

Not according to what you linked. If that's what you wanted to support, then you would have been better off posting something like this: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41564-020-00789-5

But that link also points out that ADE appears to be more likely when naturally infected with SARS-CoV-2, and is potentially the cause of the more severe cases and "long-hauler" issues that folks have seen. Conversely, there's no such indication of that with the vaccines. It further indicates that a traditional style of vaccine, using the inactivated virus, appeared to cause ADE/ERD, while the mRNA vaccines did not.

How does that make it more dangerous? There are plenty of other vaccines that target single antigens: hep B, pertussis, meningitis, etc. Those types of vaccines produce stronger immune responses and have actually been determined to be safer than those that use inactivated or attenuated viruses/bacteria. That makes it possible to give them to some folks who might normally not be able to get a vaccine due to factors like a compromised immune system.[/quote][/QUOTE]

 

[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

Since this is first use in a wide scale experiment with mRNA as the third phase of human clinical trials involving the whole of the public there is no way you can state anything with certainty.

 

If I were you I would take this poster with a grain of salt. She has continually tried to compare tetanus to Covid-19. Until June of 2020 she did not understand the tetanus is a toxoid vaccine that does not induce any immunity to C. tetani, the causative pathogen.

Furthermore, the claim by this poster that there is no immunity to tetanus without vaccination is false. In her defense, it’s the position of the WHO etc. as well so she likely doesn’t know any better.

Natural immunity to tetanus is well documented. Here are some sources of empirical evidence.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8179993/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC261948/pdf/iai00115-0275.pdf

A Jewish Ethiopian community found to have protective levels of tetanus toxin antibodies in the majority of individuals with no history of vaccination or even medical care of any kind.

https://academic.oup.com/jid/article-abstract/147/2/308/967143?redirectedFrom=fulltext

Furthermore, before human tetanus toxoid vaccines were even in use, it was observed people with more exposure to C. tetani and had C. tetani in stool samples had protective antitoxin. Individuals not shedding C. tetani did not have protective antitoxin.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2128370/

Also, studies of rural dwellers who experience more exposure to C. tetani show they have better survivability of clinical tetanus. This is evidence people with more exposure to C. tetani have a level of immunity that affects severity of disease independent of vaccination.

http://mjiri.iums.ac.ir/article-1-1548-en.pdf

https://academic.oup.com/ije/article-abstract/7/2/185/657559?redirectedFrom=fulltext

To round out the lack of understanding by many in healthcare of tetanus and tetanus vaccines, consider this statement from the WHO.

The WHO is either being intentionally misleading or demonstrating ignorance because there is no current method of preventing C. tetani infection. The tetanus toxoid vaccines do not prevent infection any more than natural immunity from intestinal colonization or wound infection. None of them have any effect on subsequent infections. They only produce antibodies that target toxins produced by the active C. tetani infection and limit symptoms caused by these toxins. It’s disingenuous of the WHO to infer vaccination prevents infection but natural immunity does not when NEITHER do so.

If you have specific questions about the Covid vaccines not answered by other participants in this thread let me know. They are good vaccines as far as we know and boostering natural infection with a dose of vaccine isn’t a bad idea. I share your frustration with the long and storied campaign by media and politicians against the facts about natural immunity. It’s actually much better at preventing re infection than we initially hoped. Not perfect, and in most cases not as good as vaccine induced immunity, but pretty good except against highly mutated variants.

 

There have been several thousand known instances of breakthrough infections in the US and none of them have shown indications of ADE. All evidence points to ADE being a higher risk of "traditional" vaccines and for those previously infected with SARS-CoV-2.

 

Since the novel treatments have never been used you cannot say that definitively.

 

I can definitely comment on the evidence that is available, which is what I did. Nothing you've posted has actually been supported by evidence; it's all been conjecture based on misunderstanding what little info you've linked to.

 

Which is none for these novel treatments. I know, never listen to the scientists that have expressed their concerns over this but listen to an internet keyboard warrior.

 

Yep, all that evidence from the early trials is not in fact evidence. The data from the now 13+ months that some folks from those trials have had the vaccine, and the breakthrough infections, not evidence. Nothing is evidence if it contradicts your wild speculation, it seems.

 

So we are about 13 months into phase three of mass human trials and the evidence of problems show years down the road (why true trials last as much longer) and you are willing to claim you know more than the virologists that have expressed concern. Fascinating.

 

I haven't seen any credible virologists express concern, only crackpots who have been easily debunked by real medical researchers and doctors. And the problems you've made claims about (like ADE) don't take years to show up. They occur within months or upon subsequent exposure, and have not been observed in those who have received the vaccine.

 

Translation: If a virologist does not spout the party line, they are crackpots. So basically only follow the science you agree with politically.

 

I am sure you know so much more than Nobel Prize winners.

Nobel Prize Winner Warns Vaccines Facilitate Development of Deadlier COVID Variants, Urges Public to Reject Jabs

snip...

 

Do you understand the concept of loaded dice?

 

This, by the way, is what is called an "appeal to authority"

 

You mean like Fauci? LOL