Virus surge hits New England despite high vaccination rates

Discussion in 'Coronavirus (COVID-19) News' started by kazenatsu, Oct 3, 2021.

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  1. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I think this goes to show that vaccinations cannot be counted upon to stop the virus.

    Or saying it in more exact it words, it just provides further evidence that reaching very high percentages of vaccination in the population cannot be relied upon to prevent outbreaks of the virus.

    People who thought thought the vaccine was a magical solution that would end the virus were wrong.

    This should not be that surprising. Data from several other countries in the world with very high vaccination rates is showing that the vaccine isn't anywhere near as effective as previously thought at keeping people who have been vaccinated out of the hospital.
    (two additional discussions about that here and here)


    from the article:

    Despite having the highest vaccination rates in the country ... Hospitals across the region are seeing full intensive care units and staff shortages are starting to affect care.
    Virus surge hits New England despite high vaccination rates (apnews.com)

    Of course the article is blaming the unvaccinated. Never mind that several hospitals have just gone through a round of firing their hospital staff who did not want to be vaccinated.

    I notice how these news articles are just plain lying and saying that most all of those in the hospital were unvaccinated.

    But we do have information like this:
    CDC: 74% of people infected in Massachusetts outbreak vaccinated (beckershospitalreview.com) - July 30, 2021

    Which suggests that the unvaccinated may likely not be the ones responsible for the spread of the virus.

    This is a pattern I've noticed with Progressives. When a proposed solution doesn't seem to be working, just continue to blame the same thing; claim the problem is that the solution didn't go far enough, rather than admit that the solution that was tried demonstrated it was probably not very effective.

    Medical experts claimed once vaccine numbers reached targets of around 70% of the population, that would be enough to stop the spread. But now that is not proving to be true. The goal posts keep shifting.

    These people stubbornly hold on to this idea that the vaccine is "the" solution to the problem.

    But here's what I think: Even if 100% of the population were vaccinated, it would not put a stop to the virus.
    A completely false impression is being promulgated that if a person has been vaccinated it is almost impossible for that person to spread the virus. This is not true.

    It might help reduce the chance of that person spreading it. But guess what?
    You want to talk about the "Science"? The Science on this is just not really there. It's mostly guesswork at this point. There haven't been very many studies at all actually looking to see how well the vaccine prevents the spread.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2021
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  2. Capt Nice

    Capt Nice Well-Known Member

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    Who is Becker's?
     
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  3. Chrizton

    Chrizton Well-Known Member

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    Never really took my mask off despite two jabs being in for a reason.....I have never believed the official numbers and still do not. The studies have never really controlled for other things and have never involved directly exposing people who had the jabs.
     
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  4. Creasy Tvedt

    Creasy Tvedt Well-Known Member

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    Must be all those red-state Trumpers travelling to solid-blue New England just to cough on the locals.
     
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  5. Woogs

    Woogs Well-Known Member

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    And yet we now have vaccine mandates kicking in. Go figure ......
     
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  6. LiveUninhibited

    LiveUninhibited Well-Known Member

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    You don't have, or at least don't demonstrate, a grasp of the statistical methods needed to demonstrate whatever your point is. You don't like vaccination in some way, but the data you mention doesn't show anything except it's not 100% effective. Does it need to be 100% effective to be helpful? No.

    Which tells us almost nothing. How many of those exposed were vaccinated? Was it 70%? 80% 95%? What was the odds ratio of those exposed getting symptomatic or hospitalized by vaccination status? Were other variables, like age, controlled for. Your info tells us nothing except that the vaccine is not 100%.

    No it tells us nothing except that the vaccine isn't 100%.

    Red states have suffered more under covid. Figure out why yet?

    Don't pretend you're ignorant of the delta variant.

    It is the best solution so far. Better than masking, distancing, closing the economy or letting more people die than need to. But just because it's the best tool doesn't mean it must be the only one.

    Not true that this is the narrative. The narrative is conservatives aren't doing their part and so are stupid, misinformed, or selfish.
     
  7. submarinepainter

    submarinepainter Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Maines 2nd district leans right
     
  8. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    Was this written by Tucker ?
     
  9. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    July? Really??

    that 74% was that total population or just the eligible population? And I also notice you dismissing the point that once again it is the unvaccinated who are getting sick
     
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  10. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    they always leave out the facts like that
     
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  11. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    The thread headline should change one word--'despite' needs to be replaced with 'because of'.

    The data from New England very closely parallels the data from other highly injected populations, including Harvard, Italy, Singapore, High School students in Illinois and everywhere else around the world.

    The more injected a population is, the higher the rates of infection become. It's not rocket science.

    Scamdemic is the word.
     
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  12. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    Near 90% infected are unvaccinated. It appears there are enough conservatives living in the north to create a hospital healthcare problem.
     
  13. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    Wrong, the infected is more among the unvaccinated.
    It appears to be to the uninformed. The vast majority are still unvaccinated. Do we need a rock to hit people on the head ?
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2021
  14. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That's a fair point, but percentagewise very few of the overall outbreak cases happening in the New England region right now are within the state of Maine.

    Are these outbreaks due to lack of vaccination, or due to lack of people taking other types of precautions?
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2021
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  15. Pro_Line_FL

    Pro_Line_FL Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If vast majority of the patients are unvaccinated, then it tends to prove the effectiveness of the vaccines. It helps people from getting sick from the virus.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2021
  16. submarinepainter

    submarinepainter Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Or due to the fact the the Vax is not as effective vas we were told.
     
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  17. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    Not actual numbers.
    That’s because my fair state in one township could have as many trees as people in the entire state. It’s hard to catch covid from a tree. Conservatives get lost in our state just trying to round up enough people to infect. But guns. We have many more then people. AAMOF, we supply as many to other NE states through private sales as Texas Gun dealers do to Mexico.
    Every is armed in Maine, even the doctors.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2021
  18. Mircea

    Mircea Well-Known Member

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    Why would they be?

    In practical terms, there are some vaccines that are 100% effective.

    In statistical terms, no vaccine is 100% effective nor could it ever be 100% effective. Medicine is not Science. The results of Medicine are not verifiable 100% of the time, nor are they repeatable 100% of the time.

    Medicine can never be Science and "never" means "at no time ever" for the English language-challenged.

    Those of you who think vaccines are/should be 100% effective have totally unrealistic expectations not rooted in any logic.

    If you vaccinate 1 Million people with any vaccine, at least one person will get the disease from the vaccine and at least one other will get the disease anyway.

    The drummer in our band had a silly walk.

    Why? Because he had polio.

    Why? Because he got the polio vaccine. Yeah, it gave him polio. He was an infant at the time, but this was the late 1960s and to sue any entity in the medical field took a UN resolution, a UN Security Council resolution, the approval of NATO and the Warsaw Pact, the blessing of the Imperial Roman Catholic Church, a statute enacted by your State legislature, an act of Congress, and a presidential Executive Order.

    So, he and his family got nothing.

    People who think like that have been brain-washed into believing Medicine is Science, when it is not.

    The sole purpose of a vaccine is to reduce risk. Period.

    Anyone who thinks vaccines are a cure needs to REDO FROM START 3rd Grade English.
     
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  19. Mircea

    Mircea Well-Known Member

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    You mean nothing you want to hear.

    It tells us of a specific instance where 469 got STUPID-19 and 74% of them were vaccinated.

    Your reading skills are atrocious. They were not merely "exposed." They were symptomatic.

    Quite clearly, 74% is 74% as the title of the article states.

    Granted, we should be wary of secondary, tertiary and quaternary sources, since those are often used for propaganda purposes.

    Here, we have the primary source, namely the CDC. Since this is a US government document, there are no copy-right restrictions:

    In July 2021, following multiple large public events in a Barnstable County, Massachusetts, town, 469 COVID-19 cases were identified among Massachusetts residents who had traveled to the town during July 3–17; 346 (74%) occurred in fully vaccinated persons. Testing identified the Delta variant in 90% of specimens from 133 patients. Cycle threshold values were similar among specimens from patients who were fully vaccinated and those who were not.


    If you want greater detail, then:

    During July 2021, 469 cases of COVID-19 associated with multiple summer events and large public gatherings in a town in Barnstable County, Massachusetts, were identified among Massachusetts residents; vaccination coverage among eligible Massachusetts residents was 69%. Approximately three quarters (346; 74%) of cases occurred in fully vaccinated persons (those who had completed a 2-dose course of mRNA vaccine [Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna] or had received a single dose of Janssen [Johnson & Johnson] vaccine ≥14 days before exposure). Genomic sequencing of specimens from 133 patients identified the B.1.617.2 (Delta) variant of SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, in 119 (89%) and the Delta AY.3 sublineage in one (1%). Overall, 274 (79%) vaccinated patients with breakthrough infection were symptomatic. Among five COVID-19 patients who were hospitalized, four were fully vaccinated; no deaths were reported.

    [emphasis added]

    Five patients with STUPID-19 had to be hospitalized. Four were vaccinated. The five had STUPID-19 and not the Delta variants.

    That suggests an effective rate of 20%.

    Of the five hospitalized:

    1) an unvaccinated male age 50-59 had unspecified multiple underlying medical conditions (Darwin Effect at work)
    2) two vaccinated ages 20-70 had one unspecified underlying medical condition
    3) two vaccinated ages 20-70 had no underlying medical conditions.

    What constitutes an underlying medical condition is defined here:

    https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/need-extra-precautions/people-with-medical-conditions.html

    133 persons of the 469 are confirmed to have the Delta variant, including one person with Delta variant Part Deux.

    Primary Source: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7031e2.htm?s_cid=mm7031e2_w

    Feel free to read the full report for the nuts and bolts.
     
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  20. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    Ha ha, exactly….

    At no time did even the makers say the vaccines would stop the virus. Science gives you the results of trials which are passed on to the decision makers. When there is a success rate in trials that the vaccine made more then 90% of the participants survivable from covid, even though a certain % still caught it, what are you going to do, let millions more die just so you can reach a never achievable 100% ?

    Oh, the goal post are always moved in science as new evidence is revealed. 70 plus % was a reasonable goal for herd immunity if it was reached by early to mid summer. It never has, so we must now move the bar to 90%. If deniers ever bothered to listen or do the real fact finding, this would not be a gotcha game. But no, deniers just make up stuff because democrats are in charge instead of the guy who wanted us to research gargling industrial cleaner.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2021
  21. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    We weren’t told much by the cdc except trial results and the decision to bring them to market based upon the trials. It’s the political leaders of both parties that made decisions. Now it’s easy to tell who is FOS. Just follow the BS trail. If they are not quoting science and the cdc, they’re spreading nuggets.
     
  22. ButterBalls

    ButterBalls Well-Known Member

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    SO? Eventually even the vaccinated will test their bodies immune system.. And many will take that challenge many months beyond the waning time line of vaccination optimum time of protection..

    Then what, then where are the vaccinated ;)
     
  23. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That's true but misleading. Of course those "breakthrough infections" are going to be low, because most people in the population (vaccinated or not) do not get infected!
    That number on its own doesn't really mean anything.

    To have a meaningful comparison, we would have to compare to the percentage of unvaccinated in the population who show symptoms or incidentally happen to test positive after taking the test for some reason. (In other words "breakthrough rates" in the vaccinated vs the unvaccinated)
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2021
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  24. ButterBalls

    ButterBalls Well-Known Member

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    Until I see a CDC study on natural immunized percentage in the U.S. everything I read promoting this vaccine is total incomplete bullshit.. Any and all data missing that key bit of information is seriously flawed, anyone pushing any positive data beyond that is spreading disinformation!
     
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  25. ButterBalls

    ButterBalls Well-Known Member

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    So you have any idea how many of U.S. population survived infection in 2020? How many positives effects were actually naturally immunized during those twelve months?
     

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