Wasn't the Democratic Hoax supposed to go away after the election?

Most of us have taken flu vaccines annually for years. Could that be a reason it isn't quite as deadly? This is a dangerous disease because we couldn't fight it at the outset. We are getting better at fighting it now and maybe it won't dominate the way we live.

 

Certainly the flu shots help, because most flu deaths occur among the people who were not vaccinated. But regardless, the influenza virus is not as aggressive as the SARS-CoV-2. The flu is still a dangerous disease for some people, who do die from it. But COVID-19 is much worse.

But yes, once we have Covid-19 vaccines, several kinds, we'll probably beat this virus (unless it significantly mutates and keeps mutating).

Another thing is for sure: this will not be the last time we face a lethal pandemic. I hope that politicians and the public take it all more seriously so that we are better prepared, for the next one.

 

Not really, I am quoting the best currently available facts as reported by medical and government authorities. For this to be an example of authority fallacy there would have to be a body of countervailing evidence somewhere collected by other researchers positing a different argument that I deliberately or otherwise have chosen to ignore.

So if that body of evidence exists and you can produce it - or direct me to it then by all means you may have a point. And please note I am referring to a collection of legitimate scientific evidence here, not political commentary or conspiracy threads. In the absence of such however there is no authority fallacy in play.

Best figures I can find indicate that up to 20% of COVID victims have also tested positive for other inspiratory viruses. Setting aside the fact that still leaves a massive 80% of victims having no other infection I note the following;

- this result doesn't necessarily imply simultaneous infections, merely that when tested they had traces of 2 or more viruses in their system. So the exact order & timing of infection is unclear. So Although it is entirely possible the victims had both viruses at once, some may not have.
- not withstanding the possibility of joint infections there is a massive body of evidence from biomedical assays and samples taken from victims that it is the COVID virus which the immune system is overreacting to, not some other virus.
- I may be wrong but you seem to be under the impression that the virus directly kills the victim upon infection. This as far as I can research is not what kills them the majority of patients. Its the body's immune system overreacting to the virus and starting a hyperactive inflammatory response that kills them. Hence standard treatment includes steroids. COVID is a new virus so the body is far more likely to overreact to it.
- lastly I am unaware of any claims by authorities that there have been no deaths due to common cold viruses and flu this year among the susceptible groups. What they are saying is that deaths via COVID have totally overwhelmed those numbers.

The fact you seem to think this problem is being driven by propaganda rather than science is unfortunate. Its not and neither are my posts on this particular topic. Lets be clear I'm not a US citizen and politically I'm consistently centrist, I literally have no skin in political games here. In fact I have made a point of noting that regardless of who was in charge of the US when the virus struck that person was always going to face a serious struggle in trying to minimize the impact of COVID and might not in the end have succeeded. (Given you need the full co-operation from all State Governments for success).

This is a problem in pandemic control not politics. As I've noted before Democrats can do this and so can Republicans. Lots of different natural disasters can strike a country, hurricanes, earthquakes, fires etc. By default they are unavoidable and that means politics usually has no place in dealing with them, because they strike regardless of who is in power.

And so when it comes to natural disasters there is only one single metric against which a governments performance can be judged. And that is how well did the responsible authorities/ government respond to the disaster. And by respond I mean how well did they fund, resource and co-ordinate their response. In this case?

Lastly there will always be that 1 in 100 year event that will overwhelm any government no matter how well prepared, at least initially. Is COVID such an event? Possibly. But lets be honest, when assessing the Trump administrations response to COVID compared to what was possible if prompt action and been taken earlier - its pretty dismal. And I'd say the same thing if Clinton was in charge and she responded the same way Trump did.

 

What kind of science you are talking about?
Science would not repeat absolute numbers every day hundreds times a day.
The mortality is in uptrend so every year wie will have more and more dead people.
That is not a reason to shutdown the economies, and deprive people their freedoms.

More then 9 deaths per 1000 people is nothing that is unusual in near future.
https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/USA/united-states/death-rate
Currently number of deaths is projected to be 3000000 in US.

1000 /( 331000000 / 3000000 ) = 9.06.

We have to live with it in foreseeable future, there is no need to spread fear mongering and statistical lie among population.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by this statement but science is all about collecting data. In fact as far as 'science' in concerned the more data you have the more accurate your models of the physical world and the more accurate the predictions you can make about that world. In short data is everything in science.

I'm sorry, but you seem to be saying that the current deaths due to COVID in the US don't matter because since the population is increasing all it means is that more people will be dying every year regardless, so whats the point?

If that's correct I'm literally gobsmacked! You are literally arguing that there's no point in having Neo-natal intensive care wards in US hospitals because 'what the hell' the occupants are only going to eventually die anyway! For that matter why have a health system at all!

I'm sorry there is no 'lie'. 300,000 Americans are most likely going to die and you as far as you are concerned it seems it's not your problem. How very patriotic of you! Your viewpoint appears to be f^%k the rest of the country if 'me and mine' are OK who gives a dam!

Lets be clear what businesses and the economy want during an emergency above all else is certainty. Give them a definitive time line for a national shutdown in the event of COVID and a guaranteed program of at least partial government support for the duration and guess what? the economy will always recover. But this strategy requires focus, co-operation and commitment in Washington. So - whats the chances of this happening?

Lastly COVID is not 'fear mongering' it's not a 'statistical lies' its cold, hard, ruthless fact!

And this generation of Americans can either face it and fight it, like every generation before them who faced all the challenges nature and history ever threw at them - or adopt what appears to be your position. Curl up into a little ball and pretend the whole problem doesn't exist.

 

Yep, that is sad truth people are dying every year about 9 % of population and neither me nor you can do anything to prevent it. If you are not aware the youngest "baby boomer" today is 56 years old (the age where most of the diseases starts). Current baby boomer population is about 72 millions. Despite that sad fact that people are dying there is absolutely no reason to ruin other people's life, artificially increase suicides, drug abuse and alcoholism as well as preventing people from timely treatment in case of stroke or heart attack.

In case you did not know the Statistics is about relative numbers not absolute.

 

We'll see if your as sanguine about the whole process when a medical emergency strikes someone you care about I suppose, albeit for your sake I hope that is not soon. In the meantime I'll leave you close down all the hospitals and doctors surgeries in the US because 'we all die anyway' and it all costs to much. Good luck with that project.

 

Come on man. There is nothing you can do about virus, it is here it will stay here for decades like any common cold virus. Why do you want to make people stupid and their life miserable?

 

Proof?

We will get the facts. Democrats aren't against facts.

Your eyes, nose and mouth are "open."

 

Why, in your medical opinion, should that be the case?

We have way more people now, and new conditions. 30 years ago, people were dying from AIDS like crazy. Not today.

 

We've done something about it - its been virtually eliminated here, even though was not and is not the intent of our public health strategies, including lock-downs. In fact the whole point of masks, lock-downs etc is to fight a delaying action - just buy 12-24 months until a vaccination program can be rolled out.

Would it have worked in the US as well as here? probably not, but you could certainly have gained time/reduced the depth of the health crisis (if nothing else the public health system in the US is being hammered). Point is Trump could have tried to do something - he didn't.

 

Here we go. It is all about politics COVID-19 just an instrument.

 

T

It is basic statistics. Sample size has a calculation formula, but mostly take 30 as statistically significant.
That is how trends are formed. We are currently in mortality uptrend, so the spike in death excess can be partially explained by general increase in number of deaths.

 

I see. So you are scientist and a statistician?

 

They're doing it now.

 

Did you bother to read any of my previous posts on this thread? If not I'll repeat something I wrote earlier - post 78.

'But lets be honest, when assessing the Trump administrations response to COVID compared to what was possible if prompt action and been taken earlier - its pretty dismal. And I'd say the same thing if Clinton was in charge and she responded the same way Trump did.'

So, one more time. NOT about politics!. Its about performance. At heart the COVID outbreak is a public health issue. As such success is measured by how well any administration deals with it on a policy basis. As I've stated (repeatedly) Democrats can do this and Republicans can do this so its not an ideological issue unless someone chooses to make it so - which seems to be what your doing. So if COVID had arrived during Obama's term in office and he reacted to it the same way Trump did I'd say the same thing! Trump, Clinton, Obama, - it doesn't matter.

Just measure how well the Administration deals with a particular problem then make an assessment based on their results. Then do the same when with the next totally unrelated issue crops up! And at the end of their term guess what - you'll have a list of success and failures you can use to judge overall performance - if you chose to. But by any measure on this issue Trump failed big time.

 

Sigh. Our new case count is through the roof. We have a record number of people in the hospital, with COVID, today. (almost 80,000.) Many hospitals are filled to capacity. Refrigerator trucks are being deployed as morgues.

Phase II, just like in 1918, is going to be worse than phase I.

How is this political, again?

 

regarding overloaded hospitals
it is fake news from CNN.

 

Oooooooooooooooh boy.

 

Hello,
have you listened to Tucker Carlson yet?

Tucker: Power-hungry leaders use pandemic as pretext for more control
Nov. 17, 2020 - 10:41 - 'Tucker Carlson Tonight' host accuses America's hypocritical lawmakers of not following own coronavirus rules.

https://video.foxnews.com/v/6210242675001#sp=show-clips&spark_wn=1

I am amazed that he is allowed to speak 'cold turkey' on FOX News.

 

huh?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/siladi...-midwestern-states-worst-hit/?sh=683755e6397d

You've been living in a fantasy world inside your head.

 

Show your proof

 

They are reporting eligible voters, not registered voters, to calculate voter turnout. Shh.... don't tell the conspiracy theorists.

 

I think I have common sense.

I live in Midwest and I do not see it.
I have personally observed three hospitals, they are essentially empty.
Nothing even close to what it was before COVID-19.

 

Proof? Let's take take our country on a wild ride with Ocasio Cortez and see what we end up with.