We broke all records of cases, deaths, and hospitalizations today

Discussion in 'Coronavirus Pandemic Discussions' started by CenterField, Dec 3, 2020.

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  1. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    I don't agree that Dr. Fauci broke the public trust. And neither do his popularity numbers, BTW. Which actually show that he was the only thing that still held the public trust during the past administration. But, I'm curious, What is it you think he should have done but didn't do?
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2021
  2. MJ Davies

    MJ Davies Well-Known Member

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    I believe any or all of the following would have helped...

    1. Model the recommended behaviors by wearing a mask in public and encouraging those around him to do so. We all watched the day-to-day with people huddled together on stage maskless.

    2. Telling the public the truth about PPE and making a plan for health care workers to be covered without lying to the people. This could have been achieved if they had planned to ramp up production and distribution as quickly as possible.

    3. Stop flip-flopping on key points...

    COVID19 is less lethal than the flu
    COVID19 is extremely more lethal than the flu

    COVID19 poses no risk to the USA
    COVID19 is the worst pandemic disease to ever hit the USA

    No lockdown would last longer than 2 weeks.
    We might have to stayed locked down (indefinitely).

    There is no reason to not let children go to school.
    The schools should stay closed.

    Do not wear masks.
    You must wear a mask.
    You should wear 2 masks.
    You do not need a face shield.
    You should wear a face shield.
    Now, they are saying to use hosiery over the masks. (https://www.nationalreview.com/corn...ing-hosiery-over-your-face-along-with-a-mask/)

    4. Just like they had to make a statement about the UV light and disinfectant comments, I believe he could have come out stronger about not using hydroxychloroquine after the then-President Trump said that he's been taking it as a preventative.

    5. He could have come out stronger in explaining that the treatment plan available to the then-President is not what most people will receive and what to expect. Yes, people should know the President gets the best medical care but it can be confusing to someone who will dismiss it as "no big deal" because Trump or Fauci, etc. are making it seem that way.

    I understand that his hands were tied because of some of then-President Trump's response to the pandemic and we should probably look at that to ensure that he (specifically, that position) can get ahead of outbreaks without seeming to step on the Administration's toes. As it stands, it just looks like he will say or not say anything and everything regardless of the impact on society. That shouldn't be the case.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2021
  3. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    Are you talking about the time when we didn't know enough about the virus to make an informed recommendation about wearing masks? Hindsight is great... but you can't fault Dr Fauci for not knowing what, at the time, was unknowable.

    When would you have made a recommendation to wear masks? And what would be the scientific basis for that recommendation? Don't forget to take in consideration the fact that it would, not only clean all store shelves of all available N-95 masks, leaving healthcare workers dry (remember how they had to use a disposable mask for weeks even without that recommendation?). But that the backlash from Trump extremists if you don't have enough direct scientific evidence to support that recommendation would be brutal.

    I can't fault Dr. Fauci for not standing up to Trump on his lies, if that's what you are talking about. If he had done that, Trump would simply have fired him and put an ignorant lackey in his place. Which would have made things much worse.

    As for ramping up production of PPE. Not sure what Dr. Fauci has to do with that. Trump dragged his feet on invoking the Defense Production Act. We don't know what went on behind closed doors, but I'm pretty sure Dr. Fauci was on the side of invoking it

    That doesn't make sense. We learned about this pandemic as we went along. That's not "flip-flopping". That's learning.

    When did Dr. Fauci say it was less lethal than the flu. Could you provide a direct quote, please?

    I can't respond to any of this without direct quotes. When did Dr. Fauci say that it posed "no risk" to the US?

    And then he would have been fired. And we would have had an ignorant baboon like Scott Atlas doing his job. It wouldn't surprise me that we would be counting deaths over a million. I would venture to say that Fauci saved lives by not responding to this nonsense.

    Why would it even be Fauci's business to say anything about Trump's treatment? But, again, even if it were, what would he have gained other than get himself fired, Scott Atlas in his place, and maybe hundreds of thousand more dead.

    I think Dr. Fauci was a hero. And I'm sure he will go down in history as such. And it seems to me that the fact that he was practically the only trustworthy voice in that administration drives some people to demand more of him than was in his power to give.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2021
  4. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    DUPLICATE
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2021
  5. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    I’ve explained all that to you already. I’m not going to repeat myself. You can re-read all my responses.

    If at some point you can provide ANY empirical evidence to support your opinions let us know. Otherwise I’m too bored with your opinions unsupported by and in direct conflict with all empirical evidence.

    Calling my posts which are always supported by evidence strawman nonsense won’t improve your reputation here. Just a friendly, helpful hint.
     
  6. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    Yes, this country DOES need to disconnect politics from science.

    Unfortunately but very obviously, this country's government has deliberately injected false science into politics, and we've all seen the results.

    Unelected career bureaucrats rule the country. On their "advice" all manner of law has been broken, and by way of their conspiracies the US Treasury has been plundered.

    Scared silly by career bureaucrats and the MSM, the frightened american electorate cannot distinguish between science and snake oil salesmen.

    Plandemic, and the records of the US Patent Office detail that.
     
  7. MJ Davies

    MJ Davies Well-Known Member

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    I see it differently. In January 2017, he was the keynote speaker at a pandemic preparedness conference and stated that a pandemic was coming during Trump's Administration.

    Pandemic Preparedness in the Next Administration: Keynote Address by Anthony S. Fauci
    Fauci: 'No Doubt' Trump will face surprise infectious disease outbreak

    Start 2:30


    I'm not a doctor and I'm not trying to play Monday morning quarterback. I am merely pointing out that it's hard to trust a man that lies for whatever reason. There will always be the question "Is what he's saying NOW true or not?" Anybody would feel that way once they know someone to be a liar. Trust is hard to gain and easy to lose and lying is one of the fastest ways to do the latter.

    Agreed. This is why I said that we should reconsider how that position connects directly with the President. Nobody should have to choose between doing their job ethically and honestly under the threat of being terminated.

    I simply meant that they could have started the process earlier than they did. I'm not blaming Fauci directly for that.


    admits lying.png

    NO WORSE THAN FLU (March 26, 2020)

    If one assumes that the number of asymptomatic or minimally symptomatic cases is several times as high as the number of reported cases, the case fatality rate may be considerably less than 1%. This suggests that the overall clinical consequences of Covid-19 may ultimately be more akin to those of a severe seasonal influenza (which has a case fatality rate of approximately 0.1%) or a pandemic influenza (similar to those in 1957 and 1968) rather than a disease similar to SARS or MERS, which have had case fatality rates of 9 to 10% and 36%, respectively.2

    https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.10...7THNYsndUnb2MHgoHz8AbX6X49hJ45RqsVRnreFxcD6ic

    NOT A MAJOR THREAT TO US (April 03, 2020)

    FLASHBACK: Jan. 21, 2020: Fauci Says Coronavirus ‘Not A Major Threat’ To U.S.

    Dr. Anthony Fauci, the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases and President Donald Trump’s top adviser on matters related to the coronavirus, said in a January interview that the virus was “not a major threat” to the U.S.

    “Bottom line. We don’t have to worry about this one, right?” Newsmax anchor Greg Kelly asked Fauci on January 21.

    “Obviously, you need to take it seriously, and do the kinds of things that the CDC and the Department of Homeland Security are doing, ” Fauci responded. “But, this not a major threat for the people of the United States, and this is not something that the citizens of the United States right now should be worried about.”

    CDC Director Robert Redfield told Fox News’ Brian Kilmeade late last month that he agreed with Fauci’s assessment at the time, and said that nobody could have predicted the outbreak that would eventually occur in the U.S.

    https://dailycaller.com/2020/04/03/flashback-fauci-coronavirus-us-threat-trump/

    Fair enough.

    He could have modeled the behaviors that he was recommending to the general public. He knew that Trump was downplaying the virus and we saw him standing with others, maskless, around the podium day after day. We saw him at the ballpark with his mask on his chin.

    But, I agree, he would have probably been fired. It's unfortunate that one has to choose between their job and their integrity.

    You are probably right. I, personally, do not attach the word "trustworthy" to someone that says whatever he wants to say in the moment and contradicts it two seconds later. However, he was honest enough to admit that he lied when called on it. Are we not supposed to question his veracity once we know he's lied? Fool me once...
     
  8. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    I don't know what that has to do with what I wrote. It was clear that a pandemic was coming at some point. And BTW, we were far better prepared for it in January 2017 than we were in January 2020.

    I could stand up and say that there will be another one in the next 10 to 12 years. And I'm nowhere near being an epidemiologist. But that's more or less the cycle we now seem to be in. That doesn't tell us much, though.

    You have not quoted any of these "lies".
    I'm still not clear. Can you please point out the specific "lie"? And what information did Dr. Fauci have in February 2020 (when that article was published) about Covid 19 that allows you to claim that he was lying. And where can that information be found?

    Same here. Are you still claiming that there is a "lie" there somewhere?
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2021
  9. MJ Davies

    MJ Davies Well-Known Member

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    I don't understand what you don't understand. He outright admitted that he lied to the American public about the use of masks so they would not have a shortage for people in the medical care field. In December he admitted that he is deliberately changed his statements about COVID-19 because he didn't think people were ready to hear his true beliefs. Admittedly, that might have had something to do with not ticking Trump off but it doesn't change the fact he did it.

    I would not expect you, myself or anybody else who is not the top epidemiologist to be prepared for a pandemic. He gave a speech on that very subject three years before COVID-19 arrived in the U.S. Who better to see the warning signs that the person that said it was coming? Pretending like he didn't have critical information that could have started containment and mitigation immediately is asinine. What is the point of holding the position if you aren't going to lead your team in the best possible direction as quickly as possible?

    My whole point was (and still is) that it's difficult to differentiate between what is the truth and what is a lie once I know that someone has lied. And, yes, I think someone admitting they lied is enough evidence that they, in fact, lied.
     
  10. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    Sorry, but no. He admitted no such thing and he didn't lie. This is why quoting is so important. If you tried to find a quote you wouldn't be able to. What you will find are numerous right wingnut blogs and pseudo-news outlets claiming that he "admitted" to lying. Look for direct quotes in the articles... either of him lying or admitting that he lied and you won't find any.

    To me it's easy. In cases like these (where somebody supposedly "admitted publicly" to this or that), if they can't provide a quote it's not true. How is it possible that they cannot produce a quote if the statement was made publicly?
     

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