What does MAGA (and Ultra MAGA) mean to you

In the thread asking if MAGA is an insult, I figured that somewhere we have a thread about what MAGA even is. Whether used as an insult or a self description, what does it mean to the person so using it? I can't find one so starting one.

MAGA stands for "Make America Great Again".

I'll start.

America used to be a place where you could leave public school and get a job that would support a family. We were net lenders to the world. Without reckless policies, today, rather than pay taxes, US citizens would likely get dividends.

Our borders seemed secure. We had tough on crime policies including a death penalty for the worst violent offenses. The people by their representatives, not judges, made the laws of the land.

We had a culture that immigrants were expected to learn and adapt to.

War was to be declared by Congress and include immediate threats to US vital interests.

We were not the world police. We were not to be in forever wars that had little to nothing to do with us.

Schools taught things kids need to know about math, science, English, history, social studies and basic trade skills for home and professions.

Your thoughts?

 

It doesn't matter what the letters stand for, what matters what evets they are associated with, and I think the events in Jan-6 remind us of the mindset they represent: political extremists fueled by steady supply of political conspiracies about stolen elections and other nonsense. No one cares what the letters KKK or NAZI stand for either, what people remember what events they are associated with (racism, murder, world war, holocaust).

 

MAGA==anybody that voted for trump

Ultra MAGA==anybody in Washington on January 6th attending a rally for a loser

 

Problem here.

If you and I both agree on what "5" is, then we can have a rational discussion about "5" of something being adequate for a purpose.
When one of us decides to start acting like "5" is really a fraud and means "2", then the possibility of rational discussion ends- and we damn sure can't agree on the budget.
Skewing the definitions to misrepresent the subject.

Make America Great Again means- Make America Great Again. Exactly that. Nothing else.

It doesn't mean skew the definition of great to mean something else.
That has become a widely practiced political tactic, with the purpose of avoiding discussion or argument based on facts.... which screws up the ability to understand and accomplish anything,

 

It seems everything I said went over your head. All of it. There was no attempt to re-define anything, I specifically said it matters not what the letters stand for, but what events / mindset they are associated with.

Is KKK just a clan aka a group of closely knit families, or is there an association which tells you they might not be good people?

 

MAGA stands for American fascism.
MAGA is trying to tell you that America is weak and unviable. But that's a lie.
America is strong and powerful as always.
Trump-fascists like to stir up fears.

 

It's clear that those who claimed that they were going to make America great again actually made what you list way worse. Those and other points that "MAGAs" claimed they would fix were either made worse or not even addressed during the Trump administration, when they controlled both chambers, the judiciary, the Presidency... basically all political power. So, in a practical sense, "MAGA" means doing exactly the opposite of what you claim you're going to do.

You mention some, but this also includes boosting the swamp, increasing the power of the donor class, human rights violations, increasing the deficit to make billionaires richer, ... And many new ones like using the Presidency for personal profit, using power to silence the people and to perpetuate themselves in government using violence or other illegal means (fascism), and making bigotry more mainstream (just a handful of examples).

Of course, as I said in the other thread, especially after January 6 the term has been increasingly identified with insurrectionists and right-wing terrorism. So MAGA and Ultra-MAGA have started to become synonyms.

 

no. "maga," like any movement, is defined by its adherants, not its title.

"88" might just be a number or it might be, as defined by american nazi sympathizers, a recognition code.

"make america great again" might be a benign, even positive message, but instead it is a movement that bombs, shoots or threatens anyone who can not support their cult leader.

"maga" represents the paranoid extreme of conservatism which must be suppressed before we can proceed to form a "more perfect union."

 

I understood what you said. You seemed to not grasp the comparison of the example. If "5" means something we all agree on ( ***** ), but some start associating it to ( * * * ), the ability to understand and agree is degraded. If you want to argue that America should not be great, and therefore disagree with the MAGA concept, that is still rational. But in honesty- you have to say- I don't want my country to be that.

When you decide that Make America Great Again is a terrorist slogan, label it that way and then try to condemn all that support it as terrorists- that has nothing to do with the meaning of the slogan at all. That's propaganda of the lowest sort, an attempt to destroy people's grasp of values, the benchmarks that define a rational world and a good society.

It's not in any way real, it's a psychological tactic of unscrupulous people who want to make it a weapon- usually because they can't dodge or defend against the the MAGA concept by legitimate means.

If you send your love a rose, but I start selling the idea that proves you hate her, it would be similar. Redefine the word to fit the argument you want to make but can't legitimately make. Trash you, make it appear
you are evil, create a weapon as well as eliminating the need to defend.

This kind of thing is the work of the unscrupulous- people lacking honor, lacking a moral compass, and lacking courage.

IF you don't understand that KKK was the name of the Klu Klux Klan, and you don't understand what that association was- then you might be guilty of ignorance.
But if you know what it means and represent it as a Ladies Garden Club, then your are unscrupulous and have malicious intent.

I doubt if you have trouble knowing what MAGA stands for. IF you find that idea offensive, what it really means you object to that particular goal and all the people who endorse it.
That means you object to America- and should relocate to someplace where none of the advantages of American greatness exist to offend you....

I think that's how any rational person would understand it.

 

A honest politician would demand KAG, "Keep America Great", not MAGA, which includes the lie of an American decline.

 

Not quite.

YOUR definition then depends on WHICH so-called "adherents" you choose to form it. So it is YOU, not the general range of supporters, who are making your definition what it is.
You of course know that the allegations of threatening anyone who doesn't support "their leader" is a crock of BS. The people doing the threatening- across the board, are the left. Dems, liberal, progressives. Claims to the contrary are deflections, mirroring, re-directs.

Support for MAGA isn't support for Trump- it's support for the concept, for the quality of this nation. Do you object to that?
I supported Trump, because Hillary and later Biden were actually enemies of the concept of a great nation. They don't just tell superficial lies of convenience, they literally plot and conspire to deceive the people and grab the power to abuse them- and botch the job when they have it. These are the worst of characteristics that we can have in that office.

Every election is a choice of least evil- and getting worse, because the character of our citizens has been degraded by the endless string of abuses and corruption that rules politics. The ability to think clearly is diminishing. Your ballot never gives you the option to vote for honesty, truth or competence, we have to try and associate candidates with those things- and with $10 million being spent toconvince you elect someone to a job that will pay a total of $350K, all of us should be able to see that there's always corruption involved.

I'd have no problem voting for a democrat that truly wanted the best for the country. I've voted for several in the past. And while I was too young to vote for Harry Truman, if the equivalent ran today, I'd back him.
But I refuse to in any way endorse any candidate of any party for any office who is not willing to work for the benefit of the people and the nation- regardless of the facade they put up. And it's my job to see through that facade, and recognize who they really are.

 

This really nails it regarding a lot of core topics of discussion. Take Racism for example. I listened to one of the biggest proponents of critical race theory define racism as "a type of racism." This tells us nothing that we can discuss.

You note what the letters MAGA stands for Make America Great Again. If we accept that, we can start talking about what its proponents thought was great before, is not now, and should be again. I would repeat what I wrote in my 1st post.

Myself, I'm feeling pretty black pilled. That's no lie. We are the brokest nation in history. Our Congress just passed a giant spending budget that they were given mere hours to read... without reading it. I feel like we're screwed. But thing were pretty great under Trump. Rising wages, even factoring in inflation, for the 1st time in 1/2 a century. Cut taxes, controlled border, Obama's kids in cages shut down, only to be reopened by Brandon. No new wars, promised peace with honor in Afghanistan and more. So, things were pretty great. Prompting this to be the new hat:

 

Except many politicians, including Clinton, referred to the phrase MAGA in campaigns.

 

It's just a campaign slogan - Make America Great Again. That's all it means to me.

However, the slogan was created in the context of the eight years of "progressive" incompetence, corruption and misrule under Ovomit, Brandon & Co., and highlighting their incompetence, corruption and misrule caused butthurt amongst Ovomit and his supporters (and still does, obviously). Essentially, Make America Great Again is a slogan promoting change and change for the better.

And of course, Leftists will twist it to mean anything that they want it to mean, which means nothing, really.....

 

No, you did not understand, and still don't.

We already discussed KKK, aka Ku Klux Clan, which basically stands for "circle of closely knit families". According to your view there is nothing more to it, and if you don't like it, you are anti-family.

Likewise AntiFa stands for Anti Fascists, so they must be good people opposing fascisms and all. Lets just ignore all the things associated to them, and their gatherings (violence, rioting, destruction of property). Either you like them, or you are a pro-fascist. Right? That's your argument.

Nazi, - oh its just a name of a politicly party, - a working people's party. Nothing to see here. You got something against working people?

Your actions define you, not what you choose to call yourself.

By their fruits you shall know them. Why did Jesus say that? He was referring to people who called themselves men of God, but they were fake, and their fakeness was revealed by their actions. You can claim to be making America great, but when people see you tearing down the capitol, and lying about the elections (and everything else), people know you are doing the opposite.

Again, its not the idea, its their actions. When people wrap themselves in MAGA flags and assault the Law Enforcement, and the Capitol, then its plain for all to see they are tearing down what they pretend to be improving. It pretty much defines the word "fake".

 

Rosy reminiscences are a feature of a delusional view of history, "MAGA" a fantasy that America is no longer great, a slur upon the nation by a disgruntled, alienated ilk.

Yes, from 1789 until 2021, Americans would participate in self-governance by voting, and Losers would respect the will of the People, not incite goons by self-serving lies to attack outnumbered police defending democracy, contrive fraudulent elector schemes, or seek to fake the certified vote by intimidating governors and secretaries of state. There was a time when Americans enjoyed greater freedom, allowed to exercise far more control over their own bodies, in consultation with medical and spiritual advisers, rather than be controlled by authoritarian politicians and bureaucrats.

Nevertheless, the nation is thriving. E.g.,

By December, 2020, the unemployment rate had soared to 6.7%,

By December, 2022, it had fallen to 3.5%.

The prior regime repeatedly wrung its hands over a crumbling infrastructure, but did nothing to redress the embarrassing national deterioration.

Today, it is finally being rebuilt.

There is always a vast panoply of pluses and minuses. A constricted, selective view is merely an expression of one's bias.

 

And if a movement called Make America Great Again IS, in fact, a terrorist organization, then it's the slogan that is inaccurate. Not those who describe it as it really is.

To avoid confusion, we call it MAGA. MAGA is a fascist terrorist organization, as proven by the fact that it's founder and leader has used it to attempt to perpetuate himself in power using fear and violence. This doesn't mean that all its followers are fascists or terrorists. It simply describes the purpose of the organization.

If you create a clothes company, and call it "True Religion", it's still a clothes company, not a Religious Church, no matter what you call it.

It's what they DO, not what you call it, that defines what any group IS.

 

All MAGA means to me is a name for a Trump supporter. Nothing more, nothing less. A MAGA-Republican is a Republican who supports Trump. A non-MAGA republicans is one who would like to be able to win in a general election and not just make a statement during the GOP primaries. MAGA-Republicans lost the house in 2018, lost the presidency and the senate in 2020 and turned what should have been a red wave midterm of 2022 into a red trickle losing a senate seat and 2 governorships while gaining but 9 house seats.


There’s an old adage that goes, “Those who don’t learn from history are doomed to repeat it.” The question for 2024 is have the Republican Party learned anything from 2018, 2020 and 2022? I don’t think it has. If I were a Democrat I be saying, “Go MAGA for 2024 Republicans.” Of course, I tend to look at these thing from a general election perspective or strategist. The Republican Party ought to have learned by now that they dislike Trump and won’t vote for him or his chosen candidates. Trump received 46% of the independent vote in 2016, republican congressional candidates received 42% of the independent vote in 2018. Trump received 41% of the independent vote in 2020 and 47% in 2022 when they should have run away with the independent vote concerning Biden’s very low approval of 39% among independents, with inflation hitting the country hard etc. Yet they barely gained control of the house.


The bottom line is the Republican Party is still the smaller of the two major parties and as such must win the independent vote or lose the general election. They won’t do that with MAGA-Trump or MAGA-Trump supporters, independents dislike him too much.


As for what you posted, few if any independents associate what you said with MAGA. They associate MAGA with Trump, that’s all.

 

They are not smaller.

28% of voters are "R"
28% of voters are "D"

Both need IND to win.

Yes, they have seen enough of what they do, and the most vocal MAGA pushers in Congress (Marjorie Greene, Boebert, Kaetz) are not helping the matter.

 

You say this thread is "about what MAGA even is," but from your OP, you seem to be more interested in people's opinions about the things that MAGA stands for, which is quite a different thing. To demonstrate this difference, I will note that 80% of Republicans support MAGA, so the latter could almost be used as a synonym for the former. What would lead me to opt for MAGA, would depend on the context. If, for example, I was specifying those do or die supporters of Trump, I would say, "MAGA." These are Republicans to whom appeal Trump's promised, populist agenda. They are also Republicans with very "traditionalist," views, which prominently includes those on race. IOW, it is a wide swathe of the Republican crowd. Everyone except for Republicans who have more liberal social ideas, as on racial justice, immigration, or abortion. Republicans who are most about economic philosophy (Paul Ryan, for example), even if they may consider themselves MAGA supporters, I would not automatically refer to, as "MAGA."

 

Your hyper-partisan distain for America may be a consequence of its ongoing democratization. Racial and gender diversity in representative self-governance is increasing.

White males, particularly older ones, are upset because their dominion over other Americans is diminishing. Younger, better-educated Americans welcome the progress.

Majority sees Trump MAGA movement as threat to democracy: poll​

 

For me MAGA is a movement to restore American Greatness by:

1) ending dependence on global supply chains andrepatriating manufacturing and energy production.
2) securing the borders to empower the working man against foreign scabs.
3) educating our youth to be proud of our nation.
4) reasserting a belief in meritocracy as opposed to DEI.

 

I see many people in this thread making the same mistake. Confusing what they would LIKE a movement to be, with what it actually IS. MAGAs were in power and had complete control of both chambers of Congress, the Presidency, the Supreme Court... And yet they did NONE of those things. What they REALLY did was violate human rights, stage an insurrection, attempt to establish a dictatorship and overturn democracy. So whatever people WISH they were is irrelevant. What they REALLY are is a movement that attempted to undo our democracy and establish a dictatorship.

That's the difference between reality and wishful thinking.

 

MAGA = people that do not think America is Great

ULTRA MAGA = people like the 1-6ers

 

Trump and his supporters dirtied the term "MAGA"