What is Fascism or Reply to Off Topic

Discussion in 'Political Science' started by PatriotNews, Feb 26, 2016.

  1. PatriotNews

    PatriotNews Well-Known Member

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    I had to start a whole new thread to reply to this post for fear is was way off topic.


    Yes. That is my point. Fascism is not right wing.

    Do you know that conservatism ≠ racism? Or visa versa?

    Yes. I think all nations have a right to expect allegiance from their citizens, a right to national pride, and symbols of that pride.

    Do you hold the Constitution in high regard? Do you believe the Constitution is a living breathing instrument, or do you believe in originalism?

    Poorly worded but yes. We currently have a leader that is pathetic, weak and a disgrace. It is not the first time.

    Do you think there is something wrong with being patriotic? Is there something wrong with strong leadership?

    Yes. Who doesn't want their country to be great?

    Do you believe that it is okay to steal from future generations by accumulating a $20 trillion national debt? Is it okay to tax people who are not yet born?

    Yes. If by "them" you mean socialists or the Democratic Party. If by them you mean politicians of both political stripes, wealthy corporations and corporate elitists, lobbyists, the wealthy donor class and bureaucrats.

    Do you believe in republicanism (small "r"), states rights and individual freedom?

    No.

    Do you believe in the Bill of Rights?

    Define torture.

    Do you believe in the Geneva Convention?

    No. I believe in the 4th Amendment and USSID 18.

    Do you believe that the federal government has a right to your personal healthcare information? Do you believe that the federal government has the right to force you to purchase a product?

    No. I believe that we have a right to execute those deemed guilty of a capital crime as prescribed by law.

    Do you believe in killing innocent unborn children without due process of law?

    Yes. If by "me and my cause" you mean people and the societies they live in. All nations have a right to defend themselves against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

    Do you believe in a strong national defense? Do you believe in open borders? What nations have open borders?

    No. Traitors and terrorists and anyone who poses a threat in general.

    Did you have a particular group in mind?

    No. I believe in the 1st Amendment to the Constitution as well as the entire Constitution and all it's amendments.

    Do you believe in religious freedom? Do you believe that the government should tell people what religious beliefs are acceptable? Do you believe in the Civil War Amendments? Do you believe in a color blind society?

    Yes. I believe all countries should be capable of defending themselves.

    Do you believe we need to be the policeman of the world?

    No. I believe economic security should be our highest priority because without that we cannot afford to have a military.

    Do you believe in fiscal responsibility? Do you believe in federal social welfare spending and programs? Do you believe that healthcare is a right?

    No. I believe their is fraud waste and abuse in our military spending. I believe that their is corruption in our political system. I believe that our military spending priorities should be subject to constant scrutiny.

    Do you disagree with those who believe that federal spending is out of control and needs to be reigned in? Do you believe in deficit spending? Do you believe in Keynesian economic theory or Supply Side economic theory or a market based economy? Do you believe in free market capitalism or do you believe in government control over the means of the economy?

    Yes. Women have a right to be treated as equals.

    Do you believe in drafting women into the military? Do you agree with women being placed in combat roles? Should women be allowed to opt out of combat roles?

    No. Except in times of war, they are subject to the laws against sedition and treason the same as anyone else. I believe in the 1st Amendment as stated above.

    Do you believe the media should be free to publish national security secrets?

    Once again, I believe in the 1st Amendment. There are limits to those rights however.

    Do you believe that people have a right to incite violence?

    Yes. Sedition and treason as explained already.

    Do you believe that people have a right to betray their country, endanger their fellow countrymen, and servicemen?

    No. I believe that economic security should be our highest priority as explained earlier, without which there can be no national security.

    Do you believe nations have a right to defend themselves? Does Israel have a right to exist?

    No. I believe in the 1st Amendment quoted above, which has no reference to a separation of church and state. I believe that congress may not make any laws respecting an establishment of religion.

    Do you believe the government should ban any symbol of a religious nature from it's buildings, coins and currency and laws? Do you believe that freedom of religion and freedom of speech should be limited on government property? Do you believe that government employees must be required discard or disregard their religious beliefs while on duty?

    No.

    Do you believe that people of color should get extra consideration from government? Why? Do you believe that sex or sexuality is a civil rights issue? Do you believe that gays, lesbians, bisexuals and transgender people should get extra consideration in law?

    I believe in the 1st Amendment freedom of assembly and the right to petition government for a redress of grievances.

    Do you think that people should be allowed to associate? Do you believe that groups of people have a right to free speech? Do you believe that businesses have a right to free speech?

    I believe workers in the private sector have a right to unionize. I don't believe in public sector unionization.

    Do you believe that people who work for government should be allowed to lobby politicians for higher compensation? Do you believe that they should be allowed to give campaign contributions to politicians?

    Yes. Private sector workers should.

    Should people who work for the government be given pensions that are unfunded?

    No. I would like to see poor people do better. Wealth creating is a good thing at all levels of society.

    Do you think the rich should pay their "fair share"? Should there be a limit on the amount of money the rich can earn?

    I am a minority. The economy is not a zero sum game. The people don't obtain property at the expense of other people. Regardless, I am against unlimited immigration. I am against hurting poor and minorities by depressing their wages with illegal immigration and legal immigration.

    Are you for importing cheap labor during times of economic stress which will increase the supply of labor and depress wages? Are you for a minimum wage? Do you understand that labor is subject to the laws of supply and demand? Would you be for a temporary ban on all immigration until the unemployment numbers for poor people and minorities were better? Would you be for a temporary slowing of immigration until wages went up? Do you believe that economic growth can create jobs and decrease the supply of labor which in turn will drive up wages?

    No. I disdain them. Well, some of them.

    Do you hold esteem for wealthy people, famous people or celebrities?

    Always when desired.

    Do you think people who have not obtained a degree from an institute of higher learning are stupid?

    I am against subsidizing any industry especially at the expense of the poor for the benefit of the rich.

    Do you believe in global warming? Should poor people pay more in taxes or higher costs of living in order to subsidize wealthy corporate green energy investors?
     
  2. JGG

    JGG Banned

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    Yes. It is. See how easy that is when I don't have to argue against anything? I presented the definition of fascism, which has in it that it is a right-wing form of government. Here, I'll post it again:

    fas┬Ěcism
    ˈfaSHˌizəm/
    noun
    an authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization.
    synonyms: authoritarianism, totalitarianism, dictatorship, despotism, autocracy;

    Of course it doesn't. Did someone say otherwise?

    check.

    check.

    Right, but the important word is "again". Why isn't your country great?

    So a smaller, more focused government?

    I'm going to verify this one. Do you believe that Apple should have to create technology that would allow the government to maintain greater security, but with the possible risk of undermining individual personal privacy?

    torture
    [tawr-cher]
    noun
    1. the act of inflicting excruciating pain, as punishment or revenge, as a means of getting a confession or information, or for sheer cruelty.

    uncheck

    "We"? "We" who? Who does the executions in your state?

    Check.

    Check.

    Well, good point.

    Uncheck.

    Uncheck.

    Check.

    Check.

    Check.

    Uncheck.

    Uncheck.

    This one's tough, but I'll say uncheck.

    Check.

    Check.

    Check.

    I'll wait to see how you respond to the two or three above before I complete this.
     
  3. JGG

    JGG Banned

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    This might be a better explanation:
    Fascism, according to the American Heritage Dictionary (1983) is A system of government that exercises a dictatorship of the extreme right, typically through the merging of state and business leadership, together with belligerent nationalism. Italian philosopher Giovanni Gentile's entry in the Encyclopedia Italiana read: Fascism should more appropriately be called corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power. No less an authority on fascism than Mussolini was so pleased with that definition that he later claimed credit for it.
     
  4. PatriotNews

    PatriotNews Well-Known Member

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    I disagree with that characterization. A fascist dictatorship can be left-wing or right wing in nature, most often it is left-wing socialist in nature. I suppose that some military dictatorships have been described as right-wing. I don't necessarily agree with that in all cases.

    Because we currently have a leader that is pathetic, weak and a disgrace.

    A government bound by the limits of the Constitution. Limited government means limited power. Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely.

    I think that Apple should comply with the order of the courts. I don't believe that this situation lends itself to undermining individual personal privacy. They don't want to look at my phone, they want to look at a phone owned by the county government, and thus the people of that county. The people are entitled to access their own property, particularly when it may concern a public safety issue.

    I believe in the Constitution as it relates to American citizens, and the Geneva Convention as it relates to enemy combatants.


    You don't agree with the 4th Amendment and USSID 18? You think the government should be allowed to spy on it's citizens?

    We the people decide the laws of our states. We the people
    decide who is guilty based on a jury of our peers. "We" are
    the people.

    Uncheck to women being treated as equals?

    Journalists immune from treason and sedition or everyone?

    Anything I missed? Perhaps you can answer my questions as well?
     
  5. JGG

    JGG Banned

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    Which left-wing fascist dictatorship are you thinking of?

    Check I guess.


    Who should direct the military?

    Yes, but once they have the encryption-hack they can look at any phone whenever they want. Yours included. I'm going to go with security over privacy.

    That is where the debate is. Torture yes/no?

    Wow. This is going back and forth.

    These aren't exactly my questions. I more-or-less lifted them from a simple, 12-question, political spectrum index. It tells me where you stand on the left-wing, right-wing spectrum. It's a bit simplistic, but it'll be interesting.

    Last question: on a scale of -10 to +10, -10 being American left-wing, and +10 being American right-wing, and 0 being perfectly moderate, how would you describe yourself? Don't worry, this doesn't measure fascism.
     
  6. PatriotNews

    PatriotNews Well-Known Member

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    Hitler and Mussolini most infamously, but I'm sure there are more.

    The president in accordance with the Constitution.

    I don't believe that is true, nor do I think that the government would
    be interested. Nor do I think that a court would give blanket approval.

    The Constitution forbids cruel and unusual punishment.

    The Geneva convention has other rules for non-uniformed combatants.

    How so?

    I'll opt not to play with such a silly oversimplification of a complex issue.
     
  7. Colonel K

    Colonel K Well-Known Member

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    Not leftists except by an extreme stretch of the American rightist imagination. Did Rush tell you that, or was it Beck, or Savage?

    He gives dictionary definitions, you give opinion.
     
  8. JGG

    JGG Banned

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    Both right-wingers.


    Government? Okay.

    Okay.


    Okay.


    Okay. Here's my theory. You identify as right-wing and hold yourself as the standard for right-wing policy. You hold that "bad" policy - policy that counters your standard - must be left-wing.

    I should tell you that it doesn't work that way.

    So compared to other Americans, where do you think you stand on this little test?
     
  9. PatriotNews

    PatriotNews Well-Known Member

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    I know that plenty of people have been brainwashed
    into believing that Hitler was right-wing, but there's
    no denying he was a socialist, IT'S IN THE NAME
    NAZI.

    And it was Jonah Goldberg.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Wait, you never answered one of my question. Why don't you take my test?

    Do you know that conservatism ≠ racism? Or visa versa?

    Do you hold the Constitution in high regard? Do you believe the Constitution is a living breathing instrument, or do you believe in originalism?

    Do you think there is something wrong with being patriotic? Is there something wrong with strong leadership?

    Who doesn't want their country to be great?

    Do you believe that it is okay to steal from future generations by accumulating a $20 trillion national debt? Is it okay to tax people who are not yet born?

    Do you believe in republicanism (small "r"), states rights and individual freedom?

    Do you believe in the Bill of Rights?

    Do you believe in the Geneva Convention?

    Do you believe that the federal government has a right to your personal healthcare information? Do you believe that the federal government has the right to force you to purchase a product?

    Do you believe in killing innocent unborn children without due process of law?

    Do you believe in a strong national defense? Do you believe in open borders? What nations have open borders?

    Did you have a particular group in mind?

    Do you believe in religious freedom? Do you believe that the government should tell people what religious beliefs are acceptable? Do you believe in the Civil War Amendments? Do you believe in a color blind society?

    Do you believe we need to be the policeman of the world?

    Do you believe in fiscal responsibility? Do you believe in federal social welfare spending and programs? Do you believe that healthcare is a right?

    Do you disagree with those who believe that federal spending is out of control and needs to be reigned in? Do you believe in deficit spending? Do you believe in Keynesian economic theory or Supply Side economic theory or a market based economy? Do you believe in free market capitalism or do you believe in government control over the means of the economy?

    Do you believe in drafting women into the military? Do you agree with women being placed in combat roles? Should women be allowed to opt out of combat roles?

    Do you believe the media should be free to publish national security secrets?

    Do you believe that people have a right to incite violence?

    Do you believe that people have a right to betray their country, endanger their fellow countrymen, and servicemen?

    Do you believe nations have a right to defend themselves? Does Israel have a right to exist?

    Do you believe the government should ban any symbol of a religious nature from it's buildings, coins and currency and laws? Do you believe that freedom of religion and freedom of speech should be limited on government property? Do you believe that government employees must be required discard or disregard their religious beliefs while on duty?

    Do you believe that people of color should get extra consideration from government? Why? Do you believe that sex or sexuality is a civil rights issue? Do you believe that gays, lesbians, bisexuals and transgender people should get extra consideration in law?

    Do you think that people should be allowed to associate? Do you believe that groups of people have a right to free speech? Do you believe that businesses have a right to free speech?

    Do you believe that people who work for government should be allowed to lobby politicians for higher compensation? Do you believe that they should be allowed to give campaign contributions to politicians?

    Should people who work for the government be given pensions that are unfunded?

    Do you think the rich should pay their "fair share"? Should there be a limit on the amount of money the rich can earn?

    Are you for importing cheap labor during times of economic stress which will increase the supply of labor and depress wages? Are you for a minimum wage? Do you understand that labor is subject to the laws of supply and demand? Would you be for a temporary ban on all immigration until the unemployment numbers for poor people and minorities were better? Would you be for a temporary slowing of immigration until wages went up? Do you believe that economic growth can create jobs and decrease the supply of labor which in turn will drive up wages?

    Do you hold esteem for wealthy people, famous people or celebrities?

    Do you think people who have not obtained a degree from an institute of higher learning are stupid?

    Do you believe in global warming? Should poor people pay more in taxes or higher costs of living in order to subsidize wealthy corporate green energy investors?
     
  10. JGG

    JGG Banned

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    National Socialism is quite a different beast from liberal socialism.

    And who is Jonah Goldberg, and why is he right while political scientists are wrong?
     
  11. PatriotNews

    PatriotNews Well-Known Member

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    Jonah Goldberg is a New York Times #1 Best Selling Author.

    [​IMG]

    What do you want me to read the book to you?

    Isn't the Democratic Party now the socialist party of the United States?

    Aren't they a national party? I guess they are National Socialists.
     
  12. JGG

    JGG Banned

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    Oh. Then any political scientist, or for that matter economist, who disagrees with him must be wrong. He's popular!

    No. Just tell me what the man's credentials are.

    No, I believe the Socialst Party is the Socialist Party of the United States. There may also stil be a Marxist Party.

    No. When Hitler named it the National Socialist Party, he was expecting that Germans would band together and work for the good of the party, the good of the nation of Germany, and the good of German nationality. If you look up National Socialist you get the Nazi Party. There has never been another recognized National Socialist Party. For good reason.

    Hitler was very much a nationalist, not a socialist, but he wanted to redefine the term in his country. Hitler's National Socialist party was about as "Socialist" as the Democratic People's Republic of Korea is democratic.
     
  13. PatriotNews

    PatriotNews Well-Known Member

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    Hitlary Clinton's idea of socialism will lead to the Gulags of
    the USSR. So let's give it a rest unless you
    have consumed enough Kool-Aid and are beyond
    saving.

    Jonah Goldberg is a famous writer and if you know
    how to Google or are so uninformed pardon me if I don't
    feel like being a nursemaid teacher to spoon feeding
    common knowledge and current events.

    I bet I can find a video for you...and I bet his book is on Amazon.

    [video=youtube;-67wxPffZvw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-67wxPffZvw[/video]
     
  14. JGG

    JGG Banned

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    Is there a citation of some support this assertion, or is it just rhetoric? That you conflate Hitler with communism, the USSR, and Gulags just shows that you don't know what you're talking about.

    I Googled him. I just wanted you to be the one to write that his sum total of expertise in this field is being a "famous writer" at National Review. The guy literally has the same job title as Glenn Beck, and I should treat him like he's credible? Anyone can write a book about anything, and get it published if it will sell. If you write a book saying the guys on the other end of the political spectrum are bad, it will sell. Just because it sells, doesn't make it factual. Michael Moore has a best seller as well. So does Kim Kardashian. So does Snookie.

    So, why does a "famous writer", with no expertise in any of the necessary disciplines, deserve credibility when actual experts say he's wrong? What's his expertise in Political Science, or even Economics, or history? None. I'm going to continue listening to Political Scientists rather than a singular political pundit.

    I know Snookie's is.
     
  15. JGG

    JGG Banned

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    I'm sorry. I just realized I'm going about this in completely the wrong way.

    51srgVoOtsL._SX331_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

    Here's The Fascist Tradition: Radical Right - Wing extremism in Modern Europe by John Weiss.

    41xzui-4pIL._SX329_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

    Here's The Beast Reawakens: Fascism's Resurgence from Hitler's Spymasters to Today's Neo-Nazi Groups and Right-Wing Extremists by Martin Lee

    516nPiasg6L._SX330_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

    Here's The Encyclopedia of Right-Wing Extremism In Modern American History by Stephen Atkins

    There's three books, from three different authors that equates fascism, the Right Wing, Hitler, Nazis even the Extreme Right in America, to each other. All of these available on Amazon.

    That's my three, to your one. I win, right? That's how this works, right?
     
  16. PatriotNews

    PatriotNews Well-Known Member

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    No, this is how it works. I proclaim myself the winner, because I answered your stupid questionaire
    and you never answered my questionaire in response which I reposted in post #9

    So now I go to the beach and have a beer to celebrate my victory and refuse to
    respond to any more of your posts until you answer my questionaire.

    [video=youtube;MX145Tu4MHY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MX145Tu4MHY[/video]

    Welcome to my world.
     
  17. JGG

    JGG Banned

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    Ah! Once again I'm blindsided by the technicality of I'm-taking-my-ball-and-going-home. I forgot that we were playing by 8 year-old boy rules. Enjoy the beach, but wait until you turn 21 to open up that beer.

    Can I count on you to tell the Neo-Nazis, Dominionists and all the other fascists that they are now left-wing? Thanks.
     
  18. PatriotNews

    PatriotNews Well-Known Member

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    If you want to play then do what I did. I answered your questions,
    now you can answer mine. You are the one who is acting childish
    because the rules don't apply to you.

    Go to post #9 and answer the questions, otherwise I guess we are
    done.

    :cheerleader::banana::winner::banana::cheerleader:
     
  19. JGG

    JGG Banned

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    Look at the title of your own thread: What is Fascism? I've stated that fascism is on the extreme right-wing of the political spectrum. You've said the left. I have demonstrated with definitions, and the explanations of experts, and three books available on Amazon (for some reason) that fascism is found on the right. You have presented a book, written by a "popular author" with no expertise, and credentials that potentially rival Glenn Beck, and the assertion that "it just is". As it is, you don't seem to know the difference between socialism, nationalism, communism, and fascism, and you're unsure which category or categories Hitler falls into, I think you have failed to make your case. Truth be told, I asked those questions because I think you're unsure which of those categories you would fall into.

    Do you have anything credible that would suggest that fascism is on the left-wing of the political spectrum, or not?

    Toodles!
     
  20. PatriotNews

    PatriotNews Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like you don't know what you are talking about and
    have nothing but leftist hack talking points.

    Don't bother to reply. (unless you want to answer questions in #9)
     
  21. JGG

    JGG Banned

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    No, it's okay, I'll reply.

    I think I'm on pretty solid ground here. If you would like more resources I'm happy to provide them, but I'm going to say that your argument needs more work. In the very least, a citation from a source that is not a novel by a right-wing pundit.

    If you cannot support your argument say nothing of substantive value whatsoever.
     
  22. PatriotNews

    PatriotNews Well-Known Member

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    Why should I?

    You didn't bother to spend the time watching the video I posted
    obviously. So if you won't watch it, I doubt you'll read it.

    Now go answer those questions so we can find out what kind
    of socialist you are, a communist or a fascist.
     
  23. TBryant

    TBryant Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The left wing can be intolerant, which might lead to fascism eventually, but it lacks the nationalistic/xenophobic fervor needed to qualify. For now anyway.

    The left wing is full of as many egotistical jerks as the right wing, that doesn't make them nazis though. Not even close really.
     
  24. JGG

    JGG Banned

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    Brilliant retort. "Use facts to support your argument." "Why should I?"

    If you post a reasoned argument, I will be happy to read it. This-pundit-wrote-a-book-so-it-must-be-true is not a reasoned argument. Videos by said-pundit, likewise, do not qualify.

    What difference does it make whether I am a communist, socialist, fascist, nationalist, or Buddhist? Fascists will be on the right of the political spectrum regardless.

    If I'm a fascist, I'll be on the right. If I'm a communist, I'll be on the left.

    So, do you have a line of reasoning that places fascists on the left of the political spectrum, or not?
     
  25. PatriotNews

    PatriotNews Well-Known Member

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    Yes. Fascism and communism are not polar opposites. "In fact, they are
    closely related, historical competitors for the same constituents, seeking
    to dominate and control the same social space."[1]

    If you want to learn more, you should read the book, or watch the video.

    [1]Jonah Goldberg "Liberal Fascism" page 7
     

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