What the Wall is really about

No, it's like saying you shouldn't build JUST ONE SIDE of a fence for your dog, because it's still possible for him to get out.

 

That is how you get over a wall. LOL

 

Nope. I would put the best fence money can buy, just like I want the best wall money can buy.

 

In cartoons maybe

 

You've lost me but I'll put it this way.

Mexico is a dirty chick, like say, your mother, and we're bumping uglies with her along our southern border. Should we wear a condom, to be safe, or not a wear a condom because condoms are not 100% effective?

 

It's likely that at least 40% of those here without documentation came by AIRPLANE!!

http://www.politifact.com/punditfac...os/ramos-40-undocumented-immigrants-come-air/

That article includes several references to statements and research. If you're interested, you can look them up.

 

So you believe the words of Jorge Ramos?

 

I do see your point and it's a good one but I also sense that what you're seeking, at least in the short term, is the perfect being the enemy of the good.

A permit doesn't have to be tied to a particular employer. As long as the worker is not drawing on any kind of public assistance a portable permit (not tied to a specific employer) could be a reasonable stop-gap measure. Basically just some kind of documentation that prevents the person being in fear of deportation.

Beyond that you're going to need wholesale immigration reform and realistically, that's not even going to get a mention in the current political climate.

 

If you can't make an argument without getting totally disgusting, then you should go away. And, your implied bigotry is seriously offensive.

The bottom line is that spending anywhere between 10 billion and 40 billion MORE than what we already spend on our southern border simply can not be justified.

Let's remember that the number of undocumented residents in the US is not increasing. And, that's the most a wall can accomplish. Walls don't chase people away when they are already here. And, illegally crossing the southern border at points that aren't controlled is only one of the ways people can arrive.

 

You are free to look at the other sources.

The research done by Ramos and others can't just be ignored.

If you want to advocate for gigantic sums of money being spent on the wall, then try making that argument.

 

I started reading and the phrase "mostly true" and "taken with a grain of salt" and "might be too low" came up.

So yeah, those numbers are a joke and only meant for people like you who had your mind made up before you started reading.

 

Permit programs that have been proposed tend NOT to be oriented to simply allowing a worker to stay in America. (And, I think there are reasons for that.) They are tied to an employer who recruits them and tosses them back when the employer desires to do so.

I agree there is little interest in real solutions at present.

My own view is that those who have been working here for some number of years should be given work permits to stay, and we should start requiring e-verify to make it unattractive for others to come. That's not perfect, but it is cheap, easy and fast while solving just about all of the problem.

EVERY state in the USA has an extensive amnesty program for almost all debt, crime and misdemeanor on the books. No state has such a program for first degree murder, but that is a noted exception.


Placing the civil infraction of being here without documentation into the same bracket as first degree murder is just plain ludicrous.

 

Of course it can be justified. No amount of money is too much to protect the south western United States from reconquista.

A wall, combined with increased deportation will do wonders.

This bull crap about ladders and ropes and shovels and somehow journeying through the mojave desert like Moses is ridiculous. The wall will do exactly what it is designed to do, make crossing the border so difficult that it is near impossible.

 

The report suggests that while many probably didn't arrive literally by air, they did come here on legal visas:

"Analysts with two other organizations, the Pew Research Center and the Migration Policy Institute, largely back Warren’s overall estimates.

"It is likely that the 40 percent figure is still valid and, if anything, the share of unauthorized immigrants who are visa overstayers is probably higher than 40 percent," said Jeffrey Passel at Pew."

 

Sen. Rubio doesn't agree.

http://www.politifact.com/florida/s...publican-rubio-says-close-half-illegal-immig/

Your "might be too low" was a concession to YOU!!

You should accept that concession while you can.

And, the "grain of salt" is because the specific number being discussed in that section of the article came from a study of 2006, and the situation may have changed by some fraction since then - although there isn't evidence that it has.

If you don't have any evidence, fine. But in that case, you're running on empty in this discussion.

 

You really can't figure out how to get over a wall with a ladder? LOL

 

Do you understand that even if this is true, which it obviously is not, it's still irrelevant.

The wall is not about people overstaying visas or flying in or any other nonsense meant to distract from its purpose, which is to prevent illegal aliens from crossing into the United States through the Southern border, no more, no less. If they overstay their visa that's a separate issue, if they fly in that is also a separate issue. Stop trying to distract

 

That's just plain ludicrous. There is ZERO possibility of this leading to a change in the border.

And, such totally unsupportable nonsense does not justify increasing our tax load by tens of billions of dollars.

 

Again, you're trying to distract. I will not allow that.

The wall is meant to prevent illegal aliens from crossing the border, no more, no less. It is independent of planes and visas.

 

What do you mean by "this"? Because the wall is meant to do just that, prevent the border from changing.

 

The catch with your idea here (and the fundamental reason that blowing dollars on a wall can't be justified) is that the number of aliens in the US without documentation isn't increasing.

The wall can address only that growth rate. If the growth rate is essentially zero, then you just lost your justification for the wall.

On the other hand, maybe you want to base your argument on the "war on drugs". After all, there is a lot of drug traffic across that border.

For that, you better do some reading, because there are facts that aren't going to be friendly to THAT justification, either.

If you want to spend tens of billions of dollars, EVERY American should demand to see the math, not just feel the hate.

 

Not a 30 foot wall in 102 degrees with guards and drones watching me, no.

They didn't cover that in statics and dynamics class, or physics for that matter.

 

Ok you can't figure it out. Got it. LOL

 

If the growth rate is essentially zero then the wall will keep it that way and I'll be a happy camper.

Yknow, there was an episode of South Park that talked about illegal immigration. They said something so obvious that it amazes me why I've never heard anyone else say it too.

To paraphrase, if these people come from such a crappy country, and we let them all in, then soon our country will become crappy too.

And if youve ever been to the places where Mexican immigrants go and create their enclaves, you will see that statement is 100% true.

 

Yeah I need about 30 kicks to the head then it will make sense.